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| | Balasubramaniam L. 
Индия
Local time: 10:43
Член ProZ.com c 2006
английский => хинди
+ ...
ЛОКАЛИЗАТОР САЙТА | How does the verified status of one native language work? | Aug 4, 2013 |
Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
ProZ.com enables translators to declare up to two native languages, using the definition they consider appropriate.
I have been following your explanation of how this site works with regard to the native language requirement with interest. Could you explain one thing to me which I have not fully understood?
This is the verified status of the native language. When a member declares one native language, the site treats it as verified and indicates this by a yellow halo around the N button. But when the member declares two native languages, the verified status is withdrawn from the first declared native language and both the native languages are treated as unverified.
Could you explain the significance of this approach of the site towards a member declaring two native languages? Why does the site treat both the native languages are unverified?
You explained in an earlier post that the unverified status of the two native languages has no implications on job access, etc., in which case, I fail to see the purpose behind the verified status of the single native language.
Does the site use the verified status of the single native language in any way on this site, and if so, in what way?
| | | | Ty Kendall
Великобритания
Local time: 05:13
иврит => английский
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
No Ty, the write-ups don't appear to be originally written in English. I noticed the same issues with the Hindi text too which was full of factual errors.
Factual errors in a text don't have any bearing on whether it's a translation or not. You have no evidence whatsoever to support your belief it wasn't originally written in English.
[Edited at 2013-08-04 08:12 GMT]
| | | | Kay Denney
Франция
Local time: 06:13
французский => английский
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
The native English editor concentrated on the texts reading naturally in English, but sacrificed semantic fidelity, because no editor can be expected to have source culture knowledge of two dozen world languages.
Please don't let me wallow in my ignorance and explain forthwith what you mean by "semantic fidelity"
| | | | Enrique Cavalitto
Аргентина
Local time: 02:13
Член ProZ.com c 2006
английский => испанский
| This program has not been implemented yet | Aug 4, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
ProZ.com enables translators to declare up to two native languages, using the definition they consider appropriate.
I have been following your explanation of how this site works with regard to the native language requirement with interest. Could you explain one thing to me which I have not fully understood?
This is the verified status of the native language. When a member declares one native language, the site treats it as verified and indicates this by a yellow halo around the N button. But when the member declares two native languages, the verified status is withdrawn from the first declared native language and both the native languages are treated as unverified.
Could you explain the significance of this approach of the site towards a member declaring two native languages? Why does the site treat both the native languages are unverified?
You explained in an earlier post that the unverified status of the two native languages has no implications on job access, etc., in which case, I fail to see the purpose behind the verified status of the single native language.
Does the site use the verified status of the single native language in any way on this site, and if so, in what way?
The ProZ.com Native Speaker Credential program described in this FAQ section has not been implemented yet. A single native language declared by a member is treated as certified because this will be part of this program and it is easy to implement now, but this "certified" status has no practical effect yet in the site.
Regards,
Enrique
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| Your slip is showing / Your fly is open | Aug 5, 2013 |
Texte Style wrote:
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Ty Kendall wrote:
Doesn't the ability to send the outsourcer messages kind of circumvent the whole point of having requirements and filters? What's the point if any Tom, Dick or Harry can just start messaging them. They'll have to sift through the legitimate applications and a mountain of messages from people not meeting the criteria they requested. Yes, they could just ignore them but then isn't that just Proz-sponsored spamming?
The message would be limited to 200 characters of plain text. No CVs, no attachments, no rigmarole. And yet the job poster can access the sender's Proz profile with a click, while the sender will only know who that job poster is if their note is ever replied. These messages would be handled by Proz's internal messaging system, so the job poster can see them onscreen, and delete or file them with a click. No clutter in anyone's regular e-mail inbox. And it would be quite easy to limit each sender (who must be logged in to do it) to ONE message per job post.
Why go to so much trouble?
Honestly, as a former PM, I would have run right away from Proz if I got bombarded with missives from Bala et al after specifying that I didn't want their services. I mean, I click to say "native speakers only", then I get inundated with messages from non-natives upbraiding me and telling me to modify my policy forthwith? It was my boss who decided on the natives only policy (although on this point at least I agreed whole-heartedly). Had I wanted to get a non-native on the job I would have had to persuade him. Given the trouble I had convincing him that I could send e-mails along the lines of "here is your translation" I doubt I could have got him to budge on that one.
Native speakers is just ONE of the possibilities for this resource to be useful. It's a bit paranoid to think that as soon as you demand a native speaker, ALL non-native speakers, and even some target language learners, will send a barrage of messages trying to convince you to change your policies.
A few examples of the uses I envision for this messaging feature, when a potential bidder is prevented from contacting the job poster:
- It's unlikely that you'll find a native speaker of Spanish in Uzbekistan.
- Trados is not needed to translate script-less video for dubbing. I don't have it, but can certainly do this job.
- I am a SME in this area and LP, but I don't have FrameMaker. If translating and DTP adjustments on a PDF using Infix will do, please contact me.
- No US resident will be allowed to issue a sworn translation valid in Brazil. It's the law. Please see www...[/list]
A few examples for using this same system when a potential bidder is NOT prevented from contacting the job poster, however they don't want to clutter their prospects mailbox AND don't want to bid before some additional info is provided:
- Please specify the desired variant of PT: European or Brazilian. See www... for details.
- Can you be more specific about the size of this job? 'Pages' is too vague to assess feasibility, try qty. of words or characters.
- Are your source PDFs scanned or software-generated?[/list]
I often do either, the first group via Proz support tickets, the second via Proz internal e-mail.
Such messages could be displayed in a 2-col table format: sender (with link to Proz profile), 200-char message. A third column could contain a Delete button for each. The job poster identity will not be disclosed to the sender, unless the job poster clicks on the sender profile, and uses the Proz e-mail system to reply and make contact.
Of course, the sender MUST be logged in, so the system can provide the link to their profile. If this system is implemented, the Delete button could have a companion "Report abuse". After three abuse reports, the sender's profile will be prevented from using this feature again.
| | | | XXXphxxx (X)
Великобритания
Local time: 05:13
португальский => английский
+ ...
| Forget it, you're not going to change site policy on this | Aug 5, 2013 |
Whether anyone agrees with you or not, I think Ernesto has made it amply clear that this is one of the cornerstones of the site's guiding principles: the one with the needs sets the parameters (or some such words). It's not up for discussion. In any event, outsourcers aren't stupid or incompetent. If a search returns few results I think they'll know very well which parameters they would like to tweak from their wish list to give them a broader choice of translators.
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José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
[list] It's unlikely that you'll find a native speaker of Spanish in Uzbekistan.
I found one in the directory...
| | | | | You made my point | Aug 5, 2013 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
[list] It's unlikely that you'll find a native speaker of Spanish in Uzbekistan.
I found one in the directory...
One out of how many Prozians?
652,702.
That's a 0.000153209% probability. Quite unlikely, as I said.
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José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
[list] It's unlikely that you'll find a native speaker of Spanish in Uzbekistan.
I found one in the directory...
One out of how many Prozians?
652,702.
That's a 0.000153209% probability. Quite unlikely, as I said.
but there are no speakers of Uzbek in Spain either and there are no Spanish>Uzbek translators at all on Proz.com, in any country in the world, apparently...
[Edited at 2013-08-05 12:22 GMT]
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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
[list] It's unlikely that you'll find a native speaker of Spanish in Uzbekistan.
I found one in the directory...
One out of how many Prozians?
652,702.
That's a 0.000153209% probability. Quite unlikely, as I said.
so, where do you want to find one? The are no Spanish>Uzbek translators at all on Proz.com, in any country in the world, apparently...
Envision this...
The outsourcer needs an EN > ES translator, pretty common, and wants one necessarily living in Uruguay for any or no reason. Yet upon setting that requirement, the mouse slips, and they inadvertently click on Uzbekistan, the second item below Uruguay. Bottom line is that unless they spot and fix it or someone warns them about it, they'll be e-asking ¿Ud. habla Español? in Tashkent.
Until this is fixed, no EN > ES translator in Montevideo will be able to contact them, unless they send a support ticket to the Proz staff during business hours. If the deadline is very short...
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All this chatter and no taste of the pudding.
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José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Until this is fixed, no EN > ES translator in Montevideo will be able to contact them, unless they send a support ticket to the Proz staff during business hours. If the deadline is very short...
but I don't think Proz.com is very keen on letting members doing their job directly. I'm sure they want to be in control of the administrative side of it and I still believe that a support ticket is the best way to deal with it. At the end of the day, it's the job poster's responsibility to get it right... if they can't get these basic details right, I wouldn't want to work with them...
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Enrique Cavalitto
Аргентина
Local time: 02:13
Член ProZ.com c 2006
английский => испанский
| Job posters get warnings | Aug 5, 2013 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Until this is fixed, no EN > ES translator in Montevideo will be able to contact them, unless they send a support ticket to the Proz staff during business hours. If the deadline is very short...
but I don't think Proz.com is very keen on letting members doing their job directly. I'm sure they want to be in control of the administrative side of it and I still believe that a support ticket is the best way to deal with it. At the end of the day, it's the job poster's responsibility to get it right... if they can't get these basic details right, I wouldn't want to work with them...
Giving members ample access to features is in line with ProZ.com philosophy, and there is no urge to be in control of the administrative side of things.
As you posted above, it's the job poster's responsibility to get it right. Besides, job posters are given warning of situations like the one described above.
If you try to post a job in the En-Sp pair and request that the translator should be based in Uzbekistan (I just did the thest), you will get the following messages.
As you can see, the system will tell the job poster that the selected filter conditions will result in no notifications being sent, and will even advise:
"To increase the pool of professionals that would be notified, try the following:
* Do not require a country professionals must live in"
The fact that some job poster may select a wrong condition and post the job ignoring all warnings is not, in my opinion, a reasong strong enough to override the preferences of all job posters.
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | No override, no identification | Aug 5, 2013 |
Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
The fact that some job poster may select a wrong condition and post the job ignoring all warnings is not, in my opinion, a reasong strong enough to override the preferences of all job posters.
Hola Enrique,
I'm not suggesting to override any stonewall features. My suggestion is to allow SMALL messages, brief tips, to be sent directly to job posters, not necessarily when direct contact is precluded.
For instance, my most frequent one would be:
"Please specify Brazilian or European Portuguese. Info at http://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/1675/ "
... without having to open the job poster's profile, click on e-mail, copy&paste the job#, and go through all the customary politeness protocol in the message.
Anyway, there can always be the option to squelch all such messages, if the job poster prefers to disable this feature.
So far, job posters have been thankful for my voluntary warnings on language variants, BR sworn translations being always in hard copy (no overnight transoceanic delivery), missing word count, video translation options (dubbing or subtitling?), PDF possibilities instead of DTP rework, etc.
Most nay-sayers to this idea envision a massive attack of hundreds of desperate jobless non-native speakers attempting to override such requirement. The way I see it done, it won't help them in any way.
| | | | | Only a few minutes after my previous post... | Aug 5, 2013 |
... I received a typical job notification to illustrate precisely what I'm talking about:
Ma che bell'imbroglio! Sono un traduttore di Inglese e Portoghese, nativo parlante di Portoghese Brasiliano, ma benché lo parlo, NON traduco all'Italiano, dunque non posso dirgli niente.
BTW, they require Trados, which I don't have, so I wouldn't apply... See more ... I received a typical job notification to illustrate precisely what I'm talking about:
Ma che bell'imbroglio! Sono un traduttore di Inglese e Portoghese, nativo parlante di Portoghese Brasiliano, ma benché lo parlo, NON traduco all'Italiano, dunque non posso dirgli niente.
BTW, they require Trados, which I don't have, so I wouldn't apply anyway. So I'd just warn them about this flop, out of good citizenship. ▲ Collapse
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