| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3] > | NHS translation costs criticized (England)
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| | Neil Coffey 
Великобритания
Local time: 11:33
французский => английский
+ ...
| Daily Mail... | Feb 7, 2012 |
OK, so for people outside the UK who may not be aware, the Daily Mail is very much the Fox News of British newspaper publishing.
DO read the comments and then realise that people leaving such comments are representative of the racist, bigoted, mathematically illiterate target audience that this paper is pandering to.
The content is obviously designed to sound inflammatory to this specific audience. If the headline said "UK spends 0.000015% of its GDP towards making sure people get appropriate healthcare", they'd probably sell fewer newspapers to this audience...
| | | | | Free interpreting services | Feb 7, 2012 |
Ania Heasley wrote:
If you go to the doctor's in Poland, then I do believe that you should try your damnest to learn some basic Polish terms, make an effort, check online, make a note using google translate, take a Polish speaking friend, anything and everything you can think of to help you deal with the situation.
100% agree with you, Ania.
When I arrived to the UK, I was quite surprised to learn that there were interpreting services available for people living in the country (and some of them for quite some time!) but not being able to speak English! This is sort of free (for patients, but not for the state and its taxpayers) interpreting services, just because the immigrants cannot be bothered to learn the language of the country they are living in?
I personally went through the change of countries twice (first the UK, then Portugal - and I did not have a decent level of Portuguese at that time) and it never ever occurred to me, I should ask for an interpreter to help me speak with a doctor!
| | | | Neil Coffey
Великобритания
Local time: 11:33
французский => английский
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| To put things into perspective... | Feb 7, 2012 |
The NHS spent approximately FIFTY TIMES the annual translation budget on a WEB SITE to allow patients to book hospital appointments.
From this perspective, that translation budget really is a staggeringly SMALL amount of money.
| | | | Ty Kendall
Великобритания
Local time: 11:33
иврит => английский
| A different perspective.... | Feb 7, 2012 |
Let me begin by saying that I'm not against translation and interpretation in the NHS (within reason).
Now let me explain the "within reason".....
Of course new immigrants would require translation, this is common sense. However, there is an element of personal responsibility here. When I lived in Istanbul, within the space of a few days I had learned quite a lot of health vocabulary (sağlık (health) - was one of the first words of Turkish I learned, others such as Ec... See more Let me begin by saying that I'm not against translation and interpretation in the NHS (within reason).
Now let me explain the "within reason".....
Of course new immigrants would require translation, this is common sense. However, there is an element of personal responsibility here. When I lived in Istanbul, within the space of a few days I had learned quite a lot of health vocabulary (sağlık (health) - was one of the first words of Turkish I learned, others such as Eczane (Pharmacy) followed).
...so when we're not talking about very specialised medical lingo, there should be some effort to learn what could be "lifesaving" language. If I was living in China/Poland etc I'd want to be able to say "My....hurts", "the pain is in my...." etc even if I couldn't discuss the finer points of a myocardial infarction.
My point was that a person's health related life is such a small part of his actual life that it is not worth the investment to learn a new language for it
The health aspect isn't the only reason a person should learn the language of the country they choose to reside in (long term), it is merely 1 among 1000 reasons.
My personal belief is that we have real problems of integration in the U.K and sometimes too much provision for foreign languages and translation creates a situation whereby one can "get by" (but at a cost - financial and otherwise).
It's anecdotal but I have had friends who were 2nd/3rd generation children of immigrants yet I have had to drop them off far from their home for fear of what the neighbours will say (of a "white" guy giving a ride home to an "Indian" girl). This isn't integration, it's segregation.
As an ESOL tutor I have met students who have lived in the U.K. 10, 20, 30+ years yet fail to muster basic English - this is how isolated - culturally and linguistically - some immigrant communities are.
The decision to restrict translation in the NHS is partially economic, but also paritally political and I can't say I disagree with its intentions, regardless of its implementation.
The trouble is the way they go about it, they often use a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
In a nutshell....restrict translation yes, but eliminate it, no. ▲ Collapse
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Sorry, in my enthusiasm I must have forgotten to include the link to the article itself! As Rachel points out, it was this one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16905491
The amount cited is a drop in the ocean compared with the estimated £15.7 billion cost to the government of clinical negligence claims between April 2009 and March ... See more Sorry, in my enthusiasm I must have forgotten to include the link to the article itself! As Rachel points out, it was this one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16905491
The amount cited is a drop in the ocean compared with the estimated £15.7 billion cost to the government of clinical negligence claims between April 2009 and March 2010 ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16918110 ). You'd think the last thing they want to do is add further to *that* figure! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mark Cole
Local time: 11:33
польский => английский
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| But for a bit of perspective | Feb 7, 2012 |
To put it into perspective, they're talking about 23 million out of 20 billion total in planned cuts. So even if they stopped providing translation services tomorrow, that would be only 00.1% of the cuts - a drop in the ocean. But there's nothing like putting the words "foreign" "costs" and "NHS" in the same context to get the DM readers baying for blood.
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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Read the Daily Mail!
For the avoidance of any confusion - I didn't, promise! It's good old Auntie Beeb we have to thank for this story, and the views expressed belong to other people.
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Peter Shortall wrote:
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
Read the Daily Mail!
For the avoidance of any confusion - I didn't, promise! It's good old Auntie Beeb we have to thank for this story, and the views expressed belong to other people.
I believe you... 
| | | | | Is it all "people who don't speak English" though? | Feb 7, 2012 |
I mean, obviously that's the popular perception and probably even the majority of cases, but I can imagine situations where it wouldn't apply. The first thing that comes to mind is medical records: I speak English just fine, but if I register with a GP they will ask for my medical records, which are in another language. As it happens mine are straightforward, but if they were very complicated or extensive then even I wouldn't be able to translate them for the GP's records - and I'm a (non-medica... See more I mean, obviously that's the popular perception and probably even the majority of cases, but I can imagine situations where it wouldn't apply. The first thing that comes to mind is medical records: I speak English just fine, but if I register with a GP they will ask for my medical records, which are in another language. As it happens mine are straightforward, but if they were very complicated or extensive then even I wouldn't be able to translate them for the GP's records - and I'm a (non-medical) translator in that language pair!
This has actually happened to me in the UK, sight-translating my daughter's immunisation records for the doctor's surgery to see which jabs she needed. The combination of medical jargon, bad handwriting and different immunisation schedules made it somewhat challenging. Apparently I should have had them do it!
Where I'm not sure in all of this is whether the burden should be on the NHS or on the patient to arrange any necessary interpreting. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
Великобритания
Local time: 11:33
иврит => английский
| Sometimes.... | Feb 7, 2012 |
Immigrant patients sometimes do take an English speaking relative or friend to tag along in order to translate - which I guess is shouldering some of the responsibility - the problem is that the "interpreter" in these cases usually only speaks a "home" variant of the language (i.e. they grew up speaking it at home) but they aren't exactly language or medical professionals and how they might translate more complicated medical language is anybody's guess.
This is definitely a strong a... See more Immigrant patients sometimes do take an English speaking relative or friend to tag along in order to translate - which I guess is shouldering some of the responsibility - the problem is that the "interpreter" in these cases usually only speaks a "home" variant of the language (i.e. they grew up speaking it at home) but they aren't exactly language or medical professionals and how they might translate more complicated medical language is anybody's guess.
This is definitely a strong argument for translation in the NHS. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Hege Jakobsen Lepri
Норвегия
Local time: 12:33
Член ProZ.com c 2002
английский => норвежский
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Burrell wrote:
I try not to read DM readers' comments as it usually leaves me with the impression that the UK is populated by wild dogs who can only feed and snarl. Unfortunately not a phenomenon limited to the DM
[Edited at 2012-02-07 20:38 GMT]
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Stefan Blommaert
Бразилия
Local time: 08:33
Член ProZ.com c 2012
английский => голландский
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| Unfortunately, I have to agree... | Feb 7, 2012 |
Hege Jakobsen Lepri wrote:
Burrell wrote:
I try not to read DM readers' comments as it usually leaves me with the impression that the UK is populated by wild dogs who can only feed and snarl. Unfortunately not a phenomenon limited to the DM
As a foreigner who hadn't lived in the UK for more than 20 years, I returned to this country last year (beginning of 2011), and I have to admit that a lot has changed in these 20 years.
I do not recognize this country anymore and one of the things that really bothers me is the (general) attitude towards foreigners. I have run into situations where I was being "reprimanded" and almost verbally attacked for speaking English with a slight accent, by UK low-life that can't even be "bovvered" to learn to read and write its own language properly.
That the NHS has posters in their hospitals where foreigners can point to their own language so that - should this be necessary - they can be provided with an interpreter, is a symptom of being civilized (the degree of civilization of a country can be measured by the way it treats its minorities) and the fact that it is precisely this that now comes under attack, says a lot about the situation in the UK. I am afraid that this is not something that is limited to people who read the DM.
Perhaps people in countries around the world should stop "understanding" and helping people from the UK in their own tongue. The fact that English is considered to be the lingua france of our times, does not mean that it can be taken for granted that people everywhere speak English..or worse, that it is these people's obligation to do so.
| | | | Ines Burrell
Великобритания
Local time: 11:33
Член ProZ.com c 2004
английский => латышский
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SBL_UK wrote:
Hege Jakobsen Lepri wrote:
Burrell wrote:
I try not to read DM readers' comments as it usually leaves me with the impression that the UK is populated by wild dogs who can only feed and snarl. Unfortunately not a phenomenon limited to the DM
As a foreigner who hadn't lived in the UK for more than 20 years, I returned to this country last year (beginning of 2011), and I have to admit that a lot has changed in these 20 years.
I do not recognize this country anymore and one of the things that really bothers me is the (general) attitude towards foreigners. I have run into situations where I was being "reprimanded" and almost verbally attacked for speaking English with a slight accent, by UK low-life that can't even be "bovvered" to learn to read and write its own language properly.
I have lived in the UK for 9 years and I am finally starting to feel like an immigrant now with all this anti-foreigner campaign. My kids have been bullied at school for being immigrants even though my husband is English - their only sin is a foreign monther and having spent the first years of their life in Portugal, not the UK. If this is the attitude of youngsters, what kind of grown-ups are they going to make?
At the same time I feel that the media has a lot to answer for. Without their sensationalist and war-mongering attitude people would not turn on each other and the minority groups so gladly and with such ferocity. Free speech is brilliant but in the hands of people with limited mental faculties it is a dangerous weapon.
| | | | Neil Coffey
Великобритания
Local time: 11:33
французский => английский
+ ...
| Reasons for implementation | Feb 8, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
The decision to restrict translation in the NHS is partially economic, but also paritally political and I can't say I disagree with its intentions, regardless of its implementation.
If you're looking for subtle political ways to encourage people to learn English or integrate more into society, then you might argue that that's not such a bad goal per se.
But I would suggest that denying people reliable communication over their health is a dangerous tool to use for that purpose.
I'm sure that the Daily Mail will be equally outraged when it transpires that a hospital was not made aware of a rape or child abuse case, or inadvertently gave a patient incorrect medication that caused a fatal drug interaction, due to poor communication.
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