| Страниц в теме: [1 2 3] > | When the proofreader does a bad job... Автор темы: Anna A. K.
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Anna A. K. 
Германия
Local time: 01:58
Член ProZ.com c 2020
английский => немецкий
Dear fellow translators,
I was wondering if you have come across "bad proofreaders" a lot. Meaning when your translation is sent to a proofreader by your translation agency and it comes back to you for the sign-off and you can see that the proofreader made your translation even worse, like deleting the glossary terms that you used or inconsistencies etc.
I am a bit puzzled about this and I had this one case when I basically had to remove all the proofreader's mistakes b... See more Dear fellow translators,
I was wondering if you have come across "bad proofreaders" a lot. Meaning when your translation is sent to a proofreader by your translation agency and it comes back to you for the sign-off and you can see that the proofreader made your translation even worse, like deleting the glossary terms that you used or inconsistencies etc.
I am a bit puzzled about this and I had this one case when I basically had to remove all the proofreader's mistakes back to my translation for the sign-off.
I contacted the project manager about this issue and I am still waiting for their reply.
Do you have any experience with these situations? What would be the best reaction? Asking the project manager to give the project back to the proofreader to revise it?
Thanks,
Anna ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marjolein Snippe
Нидерланды
Local time: 01:58
Член ProZ.com c 2012
английский => голландский
+ ...
...but it happens.
I usually explain with each mistake I remove why I don't agree with the proofreader's suggestion. I then tell the client I think the proofreader may not be the best person to ask again for this type of text (or at all, if that is your case, although this has never happened to me). My clients tend to thank me for this and it usually helps.
If there are too many issues to give an explanation with everything separately, I give a general explanation with as many exampl... See more ...but it happens.
I usually explain with each mistake I remove why I don't agree with the proofreader's suggestion. I then tell the client I think the proofreader may not be the best person to ask again for this type of text (or at all, if that is your case, although this has never happened to me). My clients tend to thank me for this and it usually helps.
If there are too many issues to give an explanation with everything separately, I give a general explanation with as many examples as I think necessary. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ivana Kahle
Германия
Local time: 01:58
Член ProZ.com c 2007
немецкий => хорватский
+ ...
| Wenn etwas verschlimmbessert wird... | Feb 2, 2022 |
Hello Anna,
it happens from time to time, dass etwas verschlimmbessert wird (I am not sure if there is an appropriate English term for it).
My approach to it is to correct only the first page (approx. 250 words) of the proofread document and send it to the PM with all the necessary explanations and details.
Otherwise, everyone will be wasting a lot of time.
You could also suggest to charge per hour instead of charging per word/line (if you get anything for signing the doc... See more Hello Anna,
it happens from time to time, dass etwas verschlimmbessert wird (I am not sure if there is an appropriate English term for it).
My approach to it is to correct only the first page (approx. 250 words) of the proofread document and send it to the PM with all the necessary explanations and details.
Otherwise, everyone will be wasting a lot of time.
You could also suggest to charge per hour instead of charging per word/line (if you get anything for signing the document off).
Good luck!
Ivana ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Турция
Local time: 03:58
Член ProZ.com
английский => турецкий
'if you have come across "bad proofreaders" a lot.'
Yes, all the time. In my experience, translators, more often than not, do not make good proofreaders. They get 'overzealous' (that's a new word coined for such creatures by a fellow translator here) and start replacing words with their synonyms (either out of spite or for the sake of appearing to have done some work) and imposing their own style (totally disrespecting you as a fellow colleague and human being) instead of doing the... See more 'if you have come across "bad proofreaders" a lot.'
Yes, all the time. In my experience, translators, more often than not, do not make good proofreaders. They get 'overzealous' (that's a new word coined for such creatures by a fellow translator here) and start replacing words with their synonyms (either out of spite or for the sake of appearing to have done some work) and imposing their own style (totally disrespecting you as a fellow colleague and human being) instead of doing the basics of the job (i.e. looking for mistranslations, typos, punctuation errors etc.)
'What would be the best reaction?'
Assuming that you're working with a German translation agency (and seeing that you're translating from English to German), please send the proofread file to the PM or Vendor Manager (or anyone who'll listen at the agency) and let them see the work (since they'll be German, they'll be able to read German and see the thing for themselves) and kindly ask them not to pair that 'person' with you anymore and tell them that it might be a good idea to have this person removed from their database so that they won't cause anymore damage. Don't feel bad about this. It's not arrogance or elitism to report on such people. They must be gone.
Unfortunately, I'm unable to do this in my language pair, but you can. Even if you're working with a British, American, French or Dutch translation agency, there'll be someone bound to speak/understand German and understand the issue.
[Edited at 2022-02-02 10:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Anna A. K.
Германия
Local time: 01:58
Член ProZ.com c 2020
английский => немецкий
Автор темы | I agree, Baran... | Feb 2, 2022 |
"Yes, all the time. In my experience, translators, more often than not, do not make good proofreaders. They get 'overzealous' (that's a new word coined for such creatures by a fellow translator here) and start replacing words with their synonyms (either out of spite or for the sake of appearing to have done some work) and imposing their own style (totally disrespecting you as a fellow colleague and human being) instead of doing the basics of the job (i.e. looking for mistranslations, typos, pun... See more "Yes, all the time. In my experience, translators, more often than not, do not make good proofreaders. They get 'overzealous' (that's a new word coined for such creatures by a fellow translator here) and start replacing words with their synonyms (either out of spite or for the sake of appearing to have done some work) and imposing their own style (totally disrespecting you as a fellow colleague and human being) instead of doing the basics of the job (i.e. looking for mistranslations, typos, punctuation errors etc.)"
I agree, it's frustrating sometimes. Especially when you are paired with a proofreader who has clearly less experience that you. It should be managed by the translation agencies in a better way to only choose professional and experienced people as proofreaders, and not some one who just started out. So I don't really get, why they don't handle it in an intelligent way.
It's a great advice to ask the translation agency not to pair me with this proofreader again, so thank you very much! I will certainly do that. Although since it is a large international translation agency I am also a bit worried that they might see me as diva or something and simply start asking their other translators who might have a low-maintenance approach.
[Bearbeitet am 2022-02-02 12:16 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adieu
украинский => английский
+ ...
Are they sending it to you as some sort of negative feedback, just as an "FYI that's what we ended up doing", or do they demand that you play ping pong with it, passing it back and forth with the reviewer until everyone is happy?
If negative feedback, I would probably pick an especially obvious paragraph and explain 10 things that the other person did wrong. Clear style guide violations and butchered terminology preferred.
If FYI... meh, whatever, just ignore it.
... See more Are they sending it to you as some sort of negative feedback, just as an "FYI that's what we ended up doing", or do they demand that you play ping pong with it, passing it back and forth with the reviewer until everyone is happy?
If negative feedback, I would probably pick an especially obvious paragraph and explain 10 things that the other person did wrong. Clear style guide violations and butchered terminology preferred.
If FYI... meh, whatever, just ignore it.
If ping pong... tell them that you didn't sign up for free work (unless you actually did). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Турция
Local time: 03:58
Член ProZ.com
английский => турецкий
| You should also let the agency know about the proofreader's/translator's incompetence | Feb 2, 2022 |
Anna1307 wrote:
Although since it is a large international translation agency I am also a bit worried that they might see me as diva or something and simply start asking their other translators who might have a low-maintenance approach.
[Bearbeitet am 2022-02-02 12:16 GMT]
If I understood you correctly, the agency returns you the proofreader's changes and asks you whether you accept them or not? I work with one such agency, and it's great. This way you get to learn from your mistakes and reject the wrong, unnecessary (insulting) changes. I wish all agencies used this method.
But you should also demonstrate the proofreader's mistakes, unnecessary (and often wrong) stylistic and terminology changes that significantly alter and compromise the quality of translation.
As I said, you stand more of a chance to get your message across (one of the PMs will know enough German to see what's what) than I can in my language pair. Just expose such incompetent people and help weed them out. You'll have done a service to your fellow German translators.
| | | | Anna A. K.
Германия
Local time: 01:58
Член ProZ.com c 2020
английский => немецкий
Автор темы
Correct, the agency returns the proofreader's changes and asks me whether I accept them or not, so I am the last person to sign it off. Still, I feel that the agencies appoint the proofreader role too carelessly and regardless of the hierarchy between the translators.
But thanks for your advice anyway, very helpful!
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TonyTK
немецкий => английский
+ ...
| I've had the same problem ... | Feb 2, 2022 |
... a couple of times over the years, or rather decades. A detailed rebuttal tends to work, particularly together with the offer to send it to a neutral arbitrator all three parties can agree on. No one's ever taken me up on the arbitration offer. Not that my work was perfect, but I was confident it was far better than the proofreader's botch job. Plus: if there was indeed a rare error or awkward phrase in the job I originally delivered (which there was), I owned up to it.
| | | | Baran Keki
Турция
Local time: 03:58
Член ProZ.com
английский => турецкий
| In an ideal world... | Feb 2, 2022 |
TonyTK wrote:
send it to a neutral arbitrator all three parties can agree on.
That's how it should be. I always ask for this whenever I'm asked to take a test translation, but the reply is always the same: "Tests are assessed by our internal resources (meaning their regular/go-to translator in my language pair)". So you're entirely at the mercy of the whims of that translator, and you have no chance if he doesn't want any competition.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Нидерланды
Local time: 01:58
Член ProZ.com c 2006
английский => африкаанс
+ ...
| Play open cards with the client | Feb 3, 2022 |
Anna1307 wrote:
I am a bit puzzled about this and I had this one case when I basically had to remove all the proofreader's mistakes back to my translation for the sign-off. ... I contacted the project manager about this issue and I am still waiting for their reply.
It's odd that you're still waiting for the reply.
If this had happened to me (i.e. the proofreader introduced lots of objective errors), I would have pointed this out to the client and recommended to them that we ignore all of the proofreader's suggestions. Or, depending on the file format, I might have gone through the edits to see which ones are truly necessary, accepted those, and then rejected the rest.
Were you required to accept as many of the proofreader's suggestions as possible? Or did you have the freedom to reject as many as you wanted?
| | | | | Bad proofreaders/Good proofreaders | Feb 4, 2022 |
Every time I hear a colleague complaining about a proofreader I realize how lucky I have been working with the same GOOD reviewers for ages. Over the years, we have built a good working relationship and on the very rare occasions I haven’t agreed with something, we have discussed and solved the "issue" together either by e-mail or by telephone. I even call them when I happen to have a translation problem (they do the same). Yesterday I had a transcreation job and I was having trouble with a se... See more Every time I hear a colleague complaining about a proofreader I realize how lucky I have been working with the same GOOD reviewers for ages. Over the years, we have built a good working relationship and on the very rare occasions I haven’t agreed with something, we have discussed and solved the "issue" together either by e-mail or by telephone. I even call them when I happen to have a translation problem (they do the same). Yesterday I had a transcreation job and I was having trouble with a sentence, so I phoned one of them and in less than 5 minutes we discussed it and found a solution. Later on, I had an e-mail from her: “Guess what I am reviewing now?”. Life goes around and around… ▲ Collapse
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Kay Denney
Франция
Local time: 01:58
французский => английский
TonyTK wrote:
... a couple of times over the years, or rather decades. A detailed rebuttal tends to work, particularly together with the offer to send it to a neutral arbitrator all three parties can agree on. No one's ever taken me up on the arbitration offer. Not that my work was perfect, but I was confident it was far better than the proofreader's botch job. Plus: if there was indeed a rare error or awkward phrase in the job I originally delivered (which there was), I owned up to it.
Yes, I think it's important to give some details as to why the correction is wrong, based on dictionary definitions rather than subjective ranting "According to the OED that word means something else entirely" rather than "the proofreader is so stupid they don't even know what that word means".
And yes, owning up to genuine improvements is also important, psychologically. You're showing that you are open to improvement, you're not just throwing a wobbly because you can't handle criticism. Even if the proofreader hasn't improved my work, I'll try to find something that's insignificant enough, or maybe a case of "nonetheless" replaced by "nevertheless", where I can accept the change gracefully enough.
At the agency I used to work at, we offered to find a neutral arbitrator any time a client wasn't happy. They never took us up on it either. But strategically, it's good to offer it, it's proof of your confidence in your work.
(It mostly turned out that clients were complaining in order to get out of paying. When we asked for details of what was wrong, they were never able to produce a corrected document or list any issues. Sigh.)
| | | | Anna A. K.
Германия
Local time: 01:58
Член ProZ.com c 2020
английский => немецкий
Автор темы
Samuel Murray wrote:
Were you required to accept as many of the proofreader's suggestions as possible? Or did you have the freedom to reject as many as you wanted?
Thankfully, I had the freedom to reject as many mistakes as I wanted.
| | | | | Proofreaders are a valuable resource if you know how to use them | Mar 3, 2022 |
Each time I deliver a translation, I close my mail to the PM with the following friendly request (mostly in Japanese, in my case). Works like a charm.
“Please convey the following message to the proofreader.
Dear Proofreader:
Thank you for your efforts.
Your time is valuable, as is mine. Please let us agree on the following points.
- Please do not “edit.” Only proofread.
- Please flag only genuine mistranslations and omissions.
- Plea... See more Each time I deliver a translation, I close my mail to the PM with the following friendly request (mostly in Japanese, in my case). Works like a charm.
“Please convey the following message to the proofreader.
Dear Proofreader:
Thank you for your efforts.
Your time is valuable, as is mine. Please let us agree on the following points.
- Please do not “edit.” Only proofread.
- Please flag only genuine mistranslations and omissions.
- Please use the comments function to substantiate any changes made or proposed.
Thank you for your cooperation.”
I suspect that many proofreaders may even appreciate the clear guidance. ▲ Collapse
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