| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3] | Train of thoughts during translation Автор темы: Bojan Keevill
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Bojan Keevill
Словения
Local time: 08:49
словенский => английский
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Автор темы | Feeling-up the end user | May 3, 2018 |
... that was supposed to be funny Tom - if it was not, please accept my apology in advance of bashing commentary ; )
Tom in London wrote:
- I am thinking
- thinking is simultaneously multifarious, omnidirectional, intersecting, associated, intuitive...
- I feel, and thinking cannot be dissociated from feeling
- feeling is also multifaceted
- a computer programme, or an algorhythm performs a task with no end ... in mind [ - it has no mind]
- I have a mind with communication as a priority during translation
- I want the end user to understand
This is also very useful stuff Tom, Thanks!
I'll try to make you sound like a Brit. but will not say that you've gon'down'a'pub i'n'it.
[Edited at 2018-05-03 18:01 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
Великобритания
Local time: 07:49
Член ProZ.com c 2008
итальянский => английский
| You'd better noe | May 3, 2018 |
Bojan Keevill wrote:
I'll try to make you sound like a Brit.
You'd better not. I don't know why you assume that everyone in London is a Brit.
| | | | | Beg to disagree | May 4, 2018 |
Roisin Ni Cheallaigh wrote:
You have to read the document 2 or 3 times to just get the meaning.
IMHO if you have no cognition handicaps (and this could include unfamiliarity with the language and/or the subject matter at hand), and must read anything more than once to get the meaning, it's either poorly written or slovenly translated.
If a source text is fraught with such shortcomings, I have to be extra careful upon translating it.
Roisin Ni Cheallaigh wrote:
You have to find the end of every sentence in English to start every sentence other languages.
Really? I heard it is so in German, where they put the verb at the end.
In English, more often in EN-UK, I see writers changing subject halfway thru an abusively extended sentence. When this happens, I prefer to end the first complete phrase in PT with a period, and then start a new one on the second item, to spare the reader from the need to go back, and read it again to get the unrelated pieces of information sorted out.
| | | | Emma Page
Великобритания
Local time: 07:49
французский => английский
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| re: that "language-less state" | May 4, 2018 |
I am a very "visual" reader (when I recall a text it is always as an image in my mind, whether it's a novel or a very dry technical manual...) So for me, that language-less state of "meaning transfer" between reading the ST and composing the TT is visual: I "understand" the source text and see it in my head, then relate that image/meaning-coded-as-image in English (my native and thus target language).
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Clare Smith
Великобритания
Local time: 07:49
немецкий => английский
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| What an interesting discussion | May 4, 2018 |
I'm enjoying reading through the replies on this thread as you're all managing to convey my feelings on the subject so eloquently. Thank you.
For me, the process is something along the lines of:
- Read the whole text to get gist
- Who's writing this? What's their style? Who's the target audience?
- Start translating, trying to stay faithful to the author but realistically being more concerned about the potential reader. Yes, that works in language A but will it w... See more I'm enjoying reading through the replies on this thread as you're all managing to convey my feelings on the subject so eloquently. Thank you.
For me, the process is something along the lines of:
- Read the whole text to get gist
- Who's writing this? What's their style? Who's the target audience?
- Start translating, trying to stay faithful to the author but realistically being more concerned about the potential reader. Yes, that works in language A but will it work as well in language B? Is there a better or more succint, more powerful way to convey this?
Dependent on the type of document I'm translating, I'm also likely to go away and leave the translation for some time, then come back and look at the target text as an original document. Then play around with it from there. Does it flow in the target text now?
Finally, go back to the source text and ensure that the translation is also faithful to the source.
Of course, this kind of creative flair is sometimes only applicable to appropriate texts and subject to the client's instructions for the translation.
I think the actual "what goes on in my head whilst I'm translating?" question be something I'll be pondering for some time to come.
Thanks for letting me weigh in. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Bojan Keevill
Словения
Local time: 08:49
словенский => английский
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Автор темы
Emma Page wrote:
I am a very "visual" reader (when I recall a text it is always as an image in my mind, whether it's a novel or a very dry technical manual...) So for me, that language-less state of "meaning transfer" between reading the ST and composing the TT is visual: I "understand" the source text and see it in my head, then relate that image/meaning-coded-as-image in English (my native and thus target language).
Hello Ms. Page, - an excellent name for a linguist!
Thank you for your words. The train of thought you have described is valuable to me, I would like to make use of it. What you have written is reminiscent of synesthesia.
As I understand it, synesthesia is a function of so-called 'mirror neurons' - a subject that has come up in earlier posts to this discussion thread. I would suggest that a great deal more than mere 'mirroring' is occurring in your mind to render the visually-encoded understanding that you apprehend from text.
You are in very good company! In his book Insights of Genius, Arther Miller wrote about the importance of mental imagery in the sciences and arts, specifically in fundamental physics. Albert Einstein is probably the most famous example of the many who have understood the 'source' (in his particular case the source was neither linguistic nor mathematical) via image-encoded meanings.
Einstein poses a bit of curiosity for me, as he is generally remembered as having been a scientist, yet he never did perform any actual science - that is empirical observation. His theories resulted solely form "thought experiments", which he later codified through the language of mathematics. He encouraged empiricists to confirm his theories and suggested that if empirical observations did not confirm his insights, then fault was to be found in the apparatus and/or method employed.
Paul Dirac was another favorite of mine, telling that the aesthetic quality of a theory (an imagined truth) is more relevant to physical reality than the results of empirical observation.
Critically, since these two and many others, likely also you, did not perform any actual science in order to apprehend and understand truth, can we correctly refer to them as scientists?
Kind regards,
Bojan
[Edited at 2018-05-04 15:50 GMT]
| | | | Bojan Keevill
Словения
Local time: 08:49
словенский => английский
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Автор темы | <i>machina ratiocinalrix</i> | May 4, 2018 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
It is always interesting to scrutinize the processes used so naturally by our brain. I guess this must be how the first calculators were developed.
Dear José,
In my earlier post to you, I had forgotten to note that I have written about "the first calculators" a handful of years ago, in an essay titled The Laws of Thought, as part of my weblog (Polyhistornaut).
This subject has arisen again in relation to the set of essays, which I am currently writing, as commissioned pieces.
Enjoy!
All the best,
Bojan
| | | | Daniel Frisano 
Италия
Local time: 08:49
Член ProZ.com c 2008
английский => итальянский
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| I keep busy somehow | May 5, 2018 |
I usually listen to the radio in one of the languages I am learning/improving and pick up bits of conversation or lyrics through the unused parts of my brain. It is the only way to prevent my mind from wandering in useless bull like "do I have enough food in the house", "have the clients paid all my invoices", "which cycling route will I take tomorrow" and on and on.
Alternatively I listen to music and transcribe mentally short bits of melody, again in the gaps between the mental re... See more I usually listen to the radio in one of the languages I am learning/improving and pick up bits of conversation or lyrics through the unused parts of my brain. It is the only way to prevent my mind from wandering in useless bull like "do I have enough food in the house", "have the clients paid all my invoices", "which cycling route will I take tomorrow" and on and on.
Alternatively I listen to music and transcribe mentally short bits of melody, again in the gaps between the mental resources that are devoted to translation.
Perhaps I should add that I translate mostly technical stuff that only requires a mild level of attention. I run on autopilot, so to speak. ▲ Collapse
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neilmac
Испания
Local time: 08:49
испанский => английский
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| Translation fro dummies | May 5, 2018 |
Bojan Keevill wrote:
Hello neilmac,
If I understand you correctly, you view x as an apparent set of meanings, and y as a possible 'mirror' of x.
- perhaps a kind of mirror neuron function?
"compare my efforts with other established texts in similar contexts"
- this sounds like some kind of relativistic function, through which your valuation of y (and possibly also x) are modulated by external factors -- relevant but independent context(s).
If I have interpreted your thoughts incorrectly, please let me know. Otherwise, thanks again!
Kind regards,
Bojan
Hi Bojan:)
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your terminology and approach, which appear to be mathematical and overly complex, at least for me. For example "relativistic function" might as well be Martian to me. I don't know what it means, in fact I find it rather scary.
At school I was never any good with anything other than basic arithmetic. Please don't take offence, but I think this is over-complicating things. I preferred to simplify as far as possible, and have sometimes been accused of thinking too much in terms of black and white/right and wrong.
PS: Having said that, I just rçan a Google search for "relativistic function"; apparently it's something to do with quantum mechanics. I surrender. Just take me out back and shoot me like Old Yeller. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBc2fzLOWPI
[Edited at 2018-05-05 08:07 GMT]
[Edited at 2018-05-05 08:08 GMT]
| | | | Bojan Keevill
Словения
Local time: 08:49
словенский => английский
+ ...
Автор темы
neilmac wrote:
"relativistic function" might as well be Martian to me.
I think this is over-complicating things.
Dear neilmac,
I am sorry, I have used a pair of words out of their usual context.
What I meant was that I imagine you to relate your efforts to similar texts in other contexts. I view the task of relation (comparison) as a function of mind. Thus "relativistic function".
My fault. I was unclear. Sorry about that!
By the way, nobody understands quantum mechanics
"Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it."
- Neils Bohr
"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics."
"I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics."
- Richard Feynman
[Edited at 2018-05-07 19:02 GMT]
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