| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3] > | The ethics of translation tests Автор темы: Dylan J Hartmann
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Kay Denney 
Франция
Local time: 10:20
французский => английский
OK now we're starting to get you.
So while doing the test you came across the source of the source, and found that your translation was every bit as good as the original? or you copied it word for word? or what?
I remember concocting a test translation for my future colleague which contained a link. If you clicked on that link you came to a page containing the source translation, and there was a little flag at the top of the page where you could ... See more OK now we're starting to get you.
So while doing the test you came across the source of the source, and found that your translation was every bit as good as the original? or you copied it word for word? or what?
I remember concocting a test translation for my future colleague which contained a link. If you clicked on that link you came to a page containing the source translation, and there was a little flag at the top of the page where you could switch to the same page in either English or German. I chose the only person to have clicked on the link. She had obviously seen the translated page because she used a couple of client-specific terms, but her translation was a vast improvement on the client's (I had of course deliberately chosen a page with one of the client's in-house translations).
I remember another time a colleague was testing some students and she left all the printouts in a pile on her desk. The last student found them and copied what he saw. Unfortunately for him, the top printout was one of the worst translations. He must have thought it was what we had delivered. I don't think we bothered to tell him he'd been rumbled. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Босния и Герцеговина
Local time: 10:20
Член ProZ.com c 2009
английский => хорватский
+ ...
DJHartmann wrote:
The original was in English. The company gave a linguist the source to translate into a second language. The company then gives this second language text to new translators to translate into English and assesses their translation against the original.
You practically found the actual text you were supposed to deliver online? As far as I know, this is how test translations are assessed at translation agencies (against a reference "good" translation), as if they were mathematical items with exact results. No wonder there is such a high failure rate then. And yet another reason not to take these tests seriously.
| | | | | Luck or talent? | Mar 8, 2016 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
You practically found the actual text you were supposed to deliver online?
Yes! I googled part of my translation and it was the first hit...
[Edited at 2016-03-08 16:35 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B
Босния и Герцеговина
Local time: 10:20
Член ProZ.com c 2009
английский => хорватский
+ ...
| I don't really know... | Mar 8, 2016 |
DJHartmann wrote:
Lingua 5B wrote:
You practically found the actual text you were supposed to deliver online?
Yes! I googled part of my translation and it was the first hit... [Edited at 2016-03-08 16:35 GMT]
Since this was going back and forth between the original and the source, not sure how to comment on this. But I presume you "passed" because their criteria for passing is a word for word reference translation (translation is NOT mathematics where there is only one correct result for an item).
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Balasubramaniam L.
Индия
Local time: 14:50
Член ProZ.com c 2006
английский => хинди
+ ...
ЛОКАЛИЗАТОР САЙТА | I would translate it still my way | Mar 9, 2016 |
I would still translate it my way.
There are as many ways of translating a text as there are translators translating it, and none of these various ways is perfect (or, if you prefer the half full glass example, all of them are equally perfect).
So, even if I find someone else's translation of the translation I am doing, I would still translate it my way, as I would be driven by my belief that I can translate it better than the existing version.
[Edited at 2016-03... See more I would still translate it my way.
There are as many ways of translating a text as there are translators translating it, and none of these various ways is perfect (or, if you prefer the half full glass example, all of them are equally perfect).
So, even if I find someone else's translation of the translation I am doing, I would still translate it my way, as I would be driven by my belief that I can translate it better than the existing version.
[Edited at 2016-03-09 02:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | not a translation | Mar 9, 2016 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
So, even if I find someone else's translation of the translation I am doing, I would still translate it my way, as I would be driven by my belief that I can translate it better than the existing version.
I found the original english source, not a translation. The Thai text that I was given to translate was a poor translation of this online article. The quality of the Thai test and some questionable terms led me to search for the source.
| | | | Dani Karuniawan
Индонезия
Local time: 16:20
английский => индонезийский
+ ...
| The problem with back-translation testing method: it is not in line with the nature of language | Mar 9, 2016 |
DJHartmann wrote:
What do you do if you find the original text of the translation test that you've been asked to do?
The original was in English. The company gave a linguist the source to translate into a second language. The company then gives this second language text to new translators to translate into English and assesses their translation against the original.
[Edited at 2016-03-08 15:28 GMT]
This is wrong.
Example:
(Step 1): Original text in Indonesian: Aku senang sama kamu.
(Step 2):
This sentence has different translations:
1. I like you
2. I love you
3. I care for you
4. I enjoy with you
... and so on.
For this example, the translator (linguist is an expert in linguistics, translator is an expert in translation. You need to distinguish both terms) chooses to translate the original sentence into "I love you."
You, then, give a sentence "I love you" to the new translator.
(Step 3):
"I love you" is commonly translated into "Aku cinta kamu" in Indonesian.
You see that the result of step 3 is not identical to the original sentence in step 1.
In a MORE COMPLICATED and LONGER sentence, the difference will be MORE OBVIOUS, because language is not math and the nature of language is arbitrary. Your question contains wrong assumption that language has a nature similar to math.
As a conclusion, back translation is not an appropriate testing method for new translators.
So, how did I test a new translator? I gave him a short live paid project and sufficient days to complete the job. Then, I read and evaluated his translation result. I counted his score (for example, 10 and 20 mistakes in 100 words would be scored 90 and 80, respectively, of 100). Despite his test result, I paid him. To test a translator, you should have a better translation ability than the translator you test.
(Ironically, translators are frequently tested by someone who is ignorant in a relevant language pair. I notice this from, for example, his or her glossary, containing several mistakes.)
[Edited at 2016-03-09 19:26 GMT]
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You obviously did the best job you could and you did your research.
Why not explain what happened and your honest analysis of the situation and the translations - they couldn't hold that against you.
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Dani Karuniawan wrote:
So, how did I test a new translator? I gave him a short live paid project and sufficient days to complete the job. Then, I read and evaluated his translation result. I counted his score (for example, 10 and 20 mistakes in 100 words would be scored 90 and 80, respectively, of 100).
[Edited at 2016-03-09 05:57 GMT]
Stop evaluating the test after 2 mistakes in 100 words!
| | | | Dani Karuniawan
Индонезия
Local time: 16:20
английский => индонезийский
+ ...
Gabriele Demuth wrote:
Dani Karuniawan wrote:
So, how did I test a new translator? I gave him a short live paid project and sufficient days to complete the job. Then, I read and evaluated his translation result. I counted his score (for example, 10 and 20 mistakes in 100 words would be scored 90 and 80, respectively, of 100).
[Edited at 2016-03-09 05:57 GMT]
Stop evaluating the test after 2 mistakes in 100 words!
No, I didn't.
Score:
100 =>perfect (perfect quality and acceptable at highest rate)
90-99=> very good (high quality and acceptable at higher rate)
80-90=> good (sufficient quality and acceptable at higher rate)
70-80 => moderate (low quality and still acceptable at peanut rate)
I believe, all translators instinctively work in this way. However, rewards influence motivation and, subsequently, occupational performance. Do you want to deliver VIP service at peanut rate with delayed payment? If you answer "yes", you lie. Never undervalue our service.
[Edited at 2016-03-09 08:19 GMT]
| | | | neilmac
Испания
Local time: 10:20
испанский => английский
+ ...
If you have a good relationship with the client, you might think about telling them you've found the original source text. Otherwise, I might consider using the original translation, maybe after a bit of tweaking. However, each case would be different and weighed up on its own merits, so it's hard for me to offer anything more concrete.
| | | | | interesting question | Mar 9, 2016 |
Now I finally understand what the original question was about.
I interpreted your original question to mean: "Is it ethical to deliberately deceive a potential client by claiming to carry out a translation test, but really more or less copying and pasting the test's solution, which is available online?" That question seemed a little odd.
Now the question seems to be: "Assuming that an outsourcer is so ignorant (and probably stupid) that they have used a translation (an... See more Now I finally understand what the original question was about.
I interpreted your original question to mean: "Is it ethical to deliberately deceive a potential client by claiming to carry out a translation test, but really more or less copying and pasting the test's solution, which is available online?" That question seemed a little odd.
Now the question seems to be: "Assuming that an outsourcer is so ignorant (and probably stupid) that they have used a translation (and a poor one, at that) as the source text for their test and made similarity to the original text behind that translation the primary criterion for evaluating their test: Is it unethical to simply give them the answer they want?"
I don't know the answer to that. But I have a question: "Why would you want to work with this outsourcer?"
On a side note: Working in an "exotic" language pair, it might be effective to simply run test translations through Google Translate, quickly change around a few details, and hand them in. There is a good chance that a significant percentage of bad agencies "test" their translators in that way. On the other hand, this brings us back to the question: "Why, in God's name, would anyone want to work with any agency stupid enough to work that way?" ▲ Collapse
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Kay Denney
Франция
Local time: 10:20
французский => английский
| my take entirely | Mar 9, 2016 |
Michael Wetzel wrote:
Now I finally understand what the original question was about.
I interpreted your original question to mean: "Is it ethical to deliberately deceive a potential client by claiming to carry out a translation test, but really more or less copying and pasting the test's solution, which is available online?" That question seemed a little odd.
Now the question seems to be: "Assuming that an outsourcer is so ignorant (and probably stupid) that they have used a translation (and a poor one, at that) as the source text for their test and made similarity to the original text behind that translation the primary criterion for evaluating their test: Is it unethical to simply give them the answer they want?"
I don't know the answer to that. But I have a question: "Why would you want to work with this outsourcer?"
On a side note: Working in an "exotic" language pair, it might be effective to simply run test translations through Google Translate, quickly change around a few details, and hand them in. There is a good chance that a significant percentage of bad agencies "test" their translators in that way. On the other hand, this brings us back to the question: "Why, in God's name, would anyone want to work with any agency stupid enough to work that way?"
I wouldn't bring deities into it but that is a good question.
If as you say the target translation you had to translate back was badly done, I wouldn't really want to work with them.
In the example I gave above, I deliberately gave the translator access to our client's poor translation and I chose the only person to have obviously bothered to click on the link. Others may have done but then rejected the translation they found because it was poor, of course, but the translator I eventually chose obviously took the time to check up a few of the expressions used and chose to use some that the client did insist on, while clearly preferring to do her own thing when the client's text was just plain wrong.
So I think if I were in your shoes, I would have flagged the text I found, just to prove my researching skills, and asked for another test, or, even better, supplied a sample translation in the same field.
| | | | | This is an unknown | Mar 9, 2016 |
Michael Wetzel wrote:
Now the question seems to be: "Assuming that an outsourcer is so ignorant (and probably stupid) that they have used a translation (and a poor one, at that) as the source text for their test and made similarity to the original text behind that translation the primary criterion for evaluating their test: Is it unethical to simply give them the answer they want?"
Depends on what kind of outsourcer it is, it might be as you assume, or the outsourcer may be very well aware of these facts and is not only after a good translation, but a collaborator who thinks while they are working and is honest enough to bring up issues they come across?
[Edited at 2016-03-09 10:19 GMT]
| | | | | I like your answer better | Mar 9, 2016 |
I seem to be in a cynical mood this morning, but I still see that your answer is better than mine.
As unlikely as I might consider your proposed explanation to be, I think that it is the only possibility that has the potential to lead to being assigned a project by an agency that would actually be worth working with.
I guess it's possible that the outsourcer might appreciate Balasubramaniam's superior translation, but then it becomes very hard to explain why the same outsour... See more I seem to be in a cynical mood this morning, but I still see that your answer is better than mine.
As unlikely as I might consider your proposed explanation to be, I think that it is the only possibility that has the potential to lead to being assigned a project by an agency that would actually be worth working with.
I guess it's possible that the outsourcer might appreciate Balasubramaniam's superior translation, but then it becomes very hard to explain why the same outsourcer would use a bad translation as a source text. ▲ Collapse
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