| Страниц в теме: [1 2] > | Things words cannot describe … Автор темы: rjlChile (X)
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rjlChile (X)
Local time: 17:07
I am ‘inspired’ (for want of a better word) by this:
to ask a question:
What, if anything, cannot be described (in your language)?
| | | | neilmac
Испания
Local time: 21:07
испанский => английский
+ ...
| Suzan Hamer 
Нидерланды
Local time: 21:07
английский
+ ...
| I would think this is a dead-end question. | Sep 22, 2012 |
rjlChile wrote:
What, if anything, cannot be described (in your language)?
How can we use words to describe "things words cannot describe"?
| | | | rjlChile (X)
Local time: 17:07
Автор темы
Suzan Hamer wrote:
rjlChile wrote:
What, if anything, cannot be described (in your language)?
How can we use words to describe "things words cannot describe"?
The question you posed, apparently thinking it equates to my question when it's clear that it doesn't, may well be a dead-end question.
There's a good example in the quote from kaytrad in my OP: "We have widows and orphans, but if you lose your child, you're not anything." There is no word (at least, in English) to designate a parent whose child has died (and neilmac's 'bereaved' is clearly not the 'missing' word since that refers to an emotion, not to a relationship to family and society as do widow and orphan).
A quick squint at Google suggests many languages have missing words because the corresponding concepts are unknown to users of those languages. For example, some Amazon tribes have no notion of time or numbers, so they don't have words to identify them. Icelandic, it seems, has no word for 'please'. Imagine getting around your home town if, you had no words for 'left' and 'right' (Guugu Yimidhirr, Australia).
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Suzan Hamer
Нидерланды
Local time: 21:07
английский
+ ...
| You are the one who posed the question, | Sep 22, 2012 |
rjlChile wrote:
Suzan Hamer wrote:
rjlChile wrote:
What, if anything, cannot be described (in your language)?
How can we use words to describe "things words cannot describe"?
The question you posed, apparently thinking it equates to my question when it's clear that it doesn't, may well be a dead-end question.
....
A quick squint at Google suggests many languages have missing words because the corresponding concepts are unknown to users of those languages. For example, some Amazon tribes have no notion of time or numbers, so they don't have words to identify them. Icelandic, it seems, has no word for 'please'. Imagine getting around your home town if, you had no words for 'left' and 'right' (Guugu Yimidhirr, Australia).
in the subject of your thread: "Things words cannot describe."
Of course I understood your question, but what you meant is not "What cannot be described [in your language]," but more something like "what words are missing in your language?" or "For what is there no word in your language?"
You might find this thread interesting:
http://www.proz.com/forum/literature_poetry/117-words_that_exist_in_only_one_language.html
Sorry to be so pedantic, but I am in a very literal mood today, I guess.
[Edited at 2012-09-22 14:17 GMT]
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All the Dutch to English translators will sigh with boredom when they read this, but the Dutch word 'gezellig' is always a toughy to translate into English. I just did a quick search and one person describes it as an 'atmosphere or ambiance, in the company of others, which is friendly, fun, pleasant, cosy, sociable', which I think captures it pretty well.
| | | | Ty Kendall
Великобритания
Local time: 20:07
иврит => английский
| "Bereaved Parent" | Sep 22, 2012 |
Would probably be the most concise term you could get in English:
"Bereaved Parents of the USA, a Nation-wide organization dedicated to helping Parents and families who have lost children in life."
http://www.bereavedparentsusa.org/
"How to Help a Bereaved Parent. It is often said that there is no greater loss than the loss of a child."
When you get these ga... See more Would probably be the most concise term you could get in English:
"Bereaved Parents of the USA, a Nation-wide organization dedicated to helping Parents and families who have lost children in life."
http://www.bereavedparentsusa.org/
"How to Help a Bereaved Parent. It is often said that there is no greater loss than the loss of a child."
When you get these gaps it's usually because there hasn't been a need for the word for whatever reason, or simple avoidance - especially with the more taboo subjects, such as death.
I also read about a language which had no words for "left" and "right", but they apparently navigated themselves quite well as they did have words for "north", "east", "south", "west", "north-west", "south-east" etc. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
Великобритания
Local time: 20:07
Член ProZ.com c 2008
итальянский => английский
| Two examples | Sep 22, 2012 |
Two examples in my language pair:
There is no English word for "simpatia" (certainly not "sympathy"). In the English language there is no concept of "la simpatia" and yet "la simpatia" is possibly the most important thing there is.
In the Italian language there is no word for "privacy" and no real concept of what it is.
[Edited at 2012-09-22 16:34 GMT]
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| Which grandmother? | Sep 22, 2012 |
Something I miss in English, as well as Italian (and I think other Latin based languages), are individual words that indicate which side of the family tree your grandmother, aunt, nephew, etc. belong to.
In Swedish, if I refer to my son's "mormor" (mother mother), "moster" (beginning of mother and end of sister) or "brorson" (brother son) it's perfectly clear who I'm speaking about - unless I have numerous sisters and yes, he doesn't yet have any nephews.
In English I h... See more Something I miss in English, as well as Italian (and I think other Latin based languages), are individual words that indicate which side of the family tree your grandmother, aunt, nephew, etc. belong to.
In Swedish, if I refer to my son's "mormor" (mother mother), "moster" (beginning of mother and end of sister) or "brorson" (brother son) it's perfectly clear who I'm speaking about - unless I have numerous sisters and yes, he doesn't yet have any nephews.
In English I have to add "maternal" or "paternal" to distinguish between the two sides.
During sleepless nights, I sometimes try to work out why Swedes of old found it so much more important to make this distinction. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Nonselfdescriptive | Sep 23, 2012 |
If it doesn't, it does. If it does, it doesn't.
| | | | Oliver Walter
Великобритания
Local time: 20:07
немецкий => английский
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| Italian privacy | Sep 23, 2012 |
Tom in London wrote:
In the Italian language there is no word for "privacy" and no real concept of what it is.
Now, there nearly is an Italian word for privacy - it is "privacy". I've heard it used a few times on Italian TV. (pronounced with the diphthong "i" as in "wine", not the short vowel as in "win").
Oliver
| | | | Tom in London
Великобритания
Local time: 20:07
Член ProZ.com c 2008
итальянский => английский
Oliver Walter wrote:
Now, there nearly is an Italian word for privacy - it is "privacy".
I know, Oliver. That's because there is no Italian concept of what "privacy" really means !
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Oliver Walter
Великобритания
Local time: 20:07
немецкий => английский
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| Heterological | Sep 23, 2012 |
Richard Bartholomew wrote:
If it doesn't, it does. If it does, it doesn't.
You must be thinking of Grelling's Paradox:
Divide the adjectives in English into two categories: those which are self-descriptive, such as "pentasyllabic", "awkwardnessfull" and "recherché", and those which are not, such as "edible", "incomplete", and "bisyllabic". Now, if we admit "non-self-descriptive" as an adjective, to which class does it belong? If it seems questionable to include hyphenated words, we can use terms invented specially for this paradox: autological (= "self-descriptive") and heterological (= "non-self-descriptive"). The question then becomes: "Is 'heterological' heterological?" Try it!
(From "Gödel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter)
Oliver
[Edited at 2012-09-23 10:51 GMT]
| | | | Angie Garbarino
Local time: 21:07
Член ProZ.com c 2003
французский => итальянский
+ ...
| Sorry but... | Sep 23, 2012 |
Tom in London wrote:
Oliver Walter wrote:
Now, there nearly is an Italian word for privacy - it is "privacy".
I know, Oliver. That's because there is no Italian concept of what "privacy" really means !
There is... do not confuse the wide use of English in Italian with lack of words... that word is... riservatezza (which applies both to confidentiality and privacy), not used in that sense ok but it exists.
For things that must be kept private, documents, life, information the Italian word is RISERVATEZZA.
[Edited at 2012-09-23 10:59 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
Великобритания
Local time: 20:07
Член ProZ.com c 2008
итальянский => английский
| Not the same at all | Sep 23, 2012 |
Angie Garbarino wrote:
For things that must be kept private, documents, life, information the Italian word is RISERVATEZZA.
Of course I'm familiar with "riservatezza" but it isn't the same as "privacy".
Now you can also tell me how to say "simpatia" in English.
[Edited at 2012-09-23 12:11 GMT]
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