| Страниц в теме: [1 2] > | Wordfast PRO and Google Translate Автор темы: Monica Paolillo
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Monica Paolillo
Италия
Local time: 12:32
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => итальянский
+ ...
Hallo everyone,
I have a question for you today. I've just bought Wordfast Pro for Mac and I see there's an MT plugin.
I have tried it for 5 minutes and I have only just become aware that it is powered by Google Translate!!! This is not made clear when you activate the option (Trados Studio warns you when you choose the MT that you should not use that for confidential documents) and it is not made clear in the user manual (which is kind of serious!).
Does... See more Hallo everyone,
I have a question for you today. I've just bought Wordfast Pro for Mac and I see there's an MT plugin.
I have tried it for 5 minutes and I have only just become aware that it is powered by Google Translate!!! This is not made clear when you activate the option (Trados Studio warns you when you choose the MT that you should not use that for confidential documents) and it is not made clear in the user manual (which is kind of serious!).
Does this mean Google will put their hands on my texts if I use WF MT? I have deactivated the option now but I'm just curious. I wouldn't want to use that on confidential documents.
Also, will deactivating the option do the trick and make sure none of my texts end up anywhere else than my puter?
Thank you for any suggestions.
Monica ▲ Collapse
| | | | | No answer, but curious to know too | May 14, 2010 |
I've been playing with this the last few days and I'm not yet sure if it's a boon or a burden...
When sentences are short, technical, unambiguous, GT is half decent and usually requires some slight gender/person modification and maybe switching a false friend to a more apt equivalent. In those cases it can save some time.
But the second a sentence is a bit longer than "subjet, verb, object" it mixes up which words go with what and I think I spend more time 1) reading th... See more I've been playing with this the last few days and I'm not yet sure if it's a boon or a burden...
When sentences are short, technical, unambiguous, GT is half decent and usually requires some slight gender/person modification and maybe switching a false friend to a more apt equivalent. In those cases it can save some time.
But the second a sentence is a bit longer than "subjet, verb, object" it mixes up which words go with what and I think I spend more time 1) reading the source 2) reading the MT 3) figuring out how to fix it & 4) "fixing" the MT than my normal MO which is to type out the translation as I'm reading the source (literally in a single step).
I would LOVE if we could turn "on" the MT but that it would only appear in the bottom boxes - not in the actual cell being translated - that way I could glance at it to see if it had any value or a particularly apt turn of phrase (a few times, amongst the poor grammar and mistranslations, there have been short fragments that are 100% on the nose and that, I admit, I wouldn't have thought of myself) rather than having to delete it from the cell.
My guess is that when we use GT in WF Pro we are not feeding GT with our corrections... but that's just a guess... you're right about the fact that if we are it raises a whole slew of confidentiality issues (GT keeps bilingual corpora so if we feed our source and get GT, I don't believe GT keeps the source in its databanks... but if it receives our "correct" translation and suddenly has both source and translation, I'm sure that it does incorporate it). ▲ Collapse
| | | | NMR (X)
Франция
Local time: 12:32
французский => голландский
+ ...
Arianne Farah wrote:
I would LOVE if we could turn "on" the MT but that it would only appear in the bottom boxes - not in the actual cell being translated - that way I could glance at it to see if it had any value or a particularly apt turn of phrase (a few times, amongst the poor grammar and mistranslations, there have been short fragments that are 100% on the nose and that, I admit, I wouldn't have thought of myself) rather than having to delete it from the cell.
My guess is that when we use GT in WF Pro we are not feeding GT with our corrections... but that's just a guess... you're right about the fact that if we are it raises a whole slew of confidentiality issues (GT keeps bilingual corpora so if we feed our source and get GT, I don't believe GT keeps the source in its databanks... but if it receives our "correct" translation and suddenly has both source and translation, I'm sure that it does incorporate it).
Yesterday I tried autotranslation on a general, slightly technical text. Firstly, the input was so bad that I couldn't use it, and secondly, I saw that repetetive segments came back in orange !! So I unticked Enable machine translation and went offline. This is really a scary thing because all our translation work should be kept confidential (translator's business ethics). Besides we are all responsible for what we are diffusing on the net. A warning in Wordfast would be appropriate. And yes, a "read only" option could be a solution.
| | | | Monica Paolillo
Италия
Local time: 12:32
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => итальянский
+ ...
Автор темы | scary to say the least... | May 14, 2010 |
NMR wrote:
Yesterday I tried autotranslation on a general, slightly technical text. Firstly, the input was so bad that I couldn't use it, and secondly, I saw that repetetive segments came back in orange !! So I unticked Enable machine translation and went offline. This is really a scary thing because all our translation work should be kept confidential (translator's business ethics). Besides we are all responsible for what we are diffusing on the net. A warning in Wordfast would be appropriate. And yes, a "read only" option could be a solution.
That's exactly my point. It is scary to say the least when you are not at all aware of what is going on in the programme and on your computer!!!! This is not acceptable!
I wrote to Wordfast support to ask for explanations and they said the notification will be implemented in the next version, which is also unacceptable. In the meantime noone is aware that they're connected to Google server when they activate MT. And what's worse is that the very server they chose to connect to (Google Translate) is not at all reliable when it comes to privacy and confidentiality. My point is that Google Translate should stay away from professional translation services and instead they get integrated into a professional CAT tool and you don't even know. THIS IS INCREDIBLE!!!
Last night I finally got a reply from WF support saying that access to google translate is read-only. [...] Your translation and the TUs in your translation memory will not write to google translates TM. However, they do gain access to the SOURCE content, since that is being submitted to the google server to look for machine translations hits. If you are working on TMs locally then nothing is transferred over a server at all. Everything is saved on your local machine. [...]
This sounds a lot better because chances were that if I am not notified when I am accessing a server, I will not be notified if I write to the server as well... but still all this stuff should be made very clear to users both in the interface AND in the manual. This is not the case and it's scandalous.
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Claudio Porcellana (X) 
Италия
| WORDFAST PRO AND GOOGLE TRANSLATE | May 14, 2010 |
tried it today!
I must say that the presence of Google MT was clearly showed on the bottom state bar ...
anyway, ther risk to implement a false friend or a difficult to unearth mistake, for example "no" instead of "non", "buono" instead of "buone" or other sneaky errors, is so disturbing that I switched immediately off this option
on the contrary, I find very useful the autopropagate feature
but I love this software (and I think I'll buy... See more tried it today!
I must say that the presence of Google MT was clearly showed on the bottom state bar ...
anyway, ther risk to implement a false friend or a difficult to unearth mistake, for example "no" instead of "non", "buono" instead of "buone" or other sneaky errors, is so disturbing that I switched immediately off this option
on the contrary, I find very useful the autopropagate feature
but I love this software (and I think I'll buy it ASAP) as it has exactly all those things that I have always wanted to see in TRADOS, and Trados has never given to me, among the others, a fully customizable interface
and even if SDL Studio will have those things in the future, its price is too much higher and SDL support too much scarce
last but not least, Wordfast Pro easily translates PDFs and it is a must!
Claudio
[Modificato alle 2010-05-14 21:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Monica Paolillo
Италия
Local time: 12:32
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => итальянский
+ ...
Автор темы | clearly showed on the bottom state bar(???) | May 15, 2010 |
Claudio Porcellana wrote:
tried it today!
I must say that the presence of Google MT was clearly showed on the bottom state bar ...
anyway, ther risk to implement a false friend or a difficult to unearth mistake, for example "no" instead of "non", "buono" instead of "buone" or other sneaky errors, is so disturbing that I switched immediately off this option
on the contrary, I find very useful the autopropagate feature
but I love this software (and I think I'll buy it ASAP) as it has exactly all those things that I have always wanted to see in TRADOS, and Trados has never given to me, among the others, a fully customizable interface
and even if SDL Studio will have those things in the future, its price is too much higher and SDL support too much scarce
last but not least, Wordfast Pro easily translates PDFs and it is a must!
Claudio
[Modificato alle 2010-05-14 21:00 GMT]
Claudio, believe me "not at all clearly showed" if you're using multiple TMs and not only the MT. In that case you would get a lot of results in the bottom state bar and you would have to sort out among them and see if there is any from Google Translate. But this happens ONLY if you are already aware that you're using GT in the first place. Otherwise how can you guess? This is why the best idea is to have a notification upon enabling the MT feature. All other ways of handling this are not appropriate.
I own quite a few CATs (Trados included). Studio is a very good tool (and also translates PDFs) in my opinion but none of the ones I have run on Mac, this is why I switched to Wordfast and I was satisfied with it until I found out about this "minor problem" (!)
| | | | NMR (X)
Франция
Local time: 12:32
французский => голландский
+ ...
| Thank you for this | May 15, 2010 |
Monica Paolillo wrote:
Last night I finally got a reply from WF support saying that access to google translate is read-only. ...Your translation and the TUs in your translation memory will not write to google translates TM. However, they do gain access to the SOURCE content, since that is being submitted to the google server to look for machine translations hits. If you are working on TMs locally then nothing is transferred over a server at all. Everything is saved on your local machine.
I suppose this is true. I have confidence in Wordfast (am using it for eight or nine years now, in its different versions, and know that it is staying local, unless you ask specifically MT), but I don't know how GT uses the incoming and outgoing data flow.
Am I the only one here who doesn't use Google for searching informations and who has Copernic instead of Google Desktop Search?
In the user panel itself, in the bottom bar, it was clearly marked that the segments were coming from GT.
But now I understand too why there are lots of translators and agencies who sell cheap "human" translation and in fact it is GT, a bit re-arranged. Maybe WF made it too easy.
As Claudio says, autopropagation is a wonderful thing, and I am sure that a an intelligent use of WF and our own resources (or the client's TMs) is really efficient.
[Modifié le 2010-05-15 10:10 GMT]
| | | | Jeff Allen
Франция
Local time: 12:32
несколько языков
+ ...
| Google and Wordfast MT plug-in | May 18, 2010 |
Google having access to the source document is the same as them uploading the content to their overall TM. They can simply replicate the content and auto-generate the translation into any language pair and save it.
I use several different professional level deskop versions of MT products which have various adaptors and plug-ins to Translation Memory (TM) CAT tools.
The paid software products have features to deal with the specific points that Claudio has mentioned abov... See more Google having access to the source document is the same as them uploading the content to their overall TM. They can simply replicate the content and auto-generate the translation into any language pair and save it.
I use several different professional level deskop versions of MT products which have various adaptors and plug-ins to Translation Memory (TM) CAT tools.
The paid software products have features to deal with the specific points that Claudio has mentioned above. I have described these in my published software reviews of these MT products.
Reviews available at:
Lang Tech Evaluation website v29:
https://www.box.net/shared/jui3vs50cn
Jeff ▲ Collapse
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| Many improvements to Machine Translation in Wordfast Pro 2.4 | Jun 23, 2010 |
Arianne Farah wrote:
I would LOVE if we could turn "on" the MT but that it would only appear in the bottom boxes - not in the actual cell being translated - that way I could glance at it to see if it had any value or a particularly apt turn of phrase (a few times, amongst the poor grammar and mistranslations, there have been short fragments that are 100% on the nose and that, I admit, I wouldn't have thought of myself) rather than having to delete it from the cell.
Hi Arianne,
You can do this now with the release of Wordfast Pro 2.4 (available for download here - www.wordfast.com/store_download.html). Go to Edit > Preferences > Machine Translation and click Enable Machine Translation (you will also notice that we have added a warning message). Then, choose whether you want to always perform MT or only when there is no TM match . Once you've enabled MT, go to Edit > Preferences > Translation Memory > and check off Perform TM lookup automatically. This will show the MT match in the TM lookup window and give you the option of placing it in the target segment by using the MT icon or right clicking the segment and choosing Machine Translation.
Hope this helps,
Kristyna
| | | | Monica Paolillo
Италия
Local time: 12:32
Член ProZ.com c 2005
английский => итальянский
+ ...
Автор темы | New version for Mac | Jun 23, 2010 |
Hi Kristyna,
when will the new version be available for Mac and have you solved the Print problem?
Monica
Kristyna Marrero wrote:
Arianne Farah wrote:
I would LOVE if we could turn "on" the MT but that it would only appear in the bottom boxes - not in the actual cell being translated - that way I could glance at it to see if it had any value or a particularly apt turn of phrase (a few times, amongst the poor grammar and mistranslations, there have been short fragments that are 100% on the nose and that, I admit, I wouldn't have thought of myself) rather than having to delete it from the cell.
Hi Arianne,
You can do this now with the release of Wordfast Pro 2.4 (available for download here - www.wordfast.com/store_download.html). Go to Edit > Preferences > Machine Translation and click Enable Machine Translation (you will also notice that we have added a warning message). Then, choose whether you want to always perform MT or only when there is no TM match . Once you've enabled MT, go to Edit > Preferences > Translation Memory > and check off Perform TM lookup automatically. This will show the MT match in the TM lookup window and give you the option of placing it in the target segment by using the MT icon or right clicking the segment and choosing Machine Translation.
Hope this helps,
Kristyna
| | | | Tom in London
Великобритания
Local time: 11:32
Член ProZ.com c 2008
итальянский => английский
| WHat does this mean? | Jun 23, 2010 |
Hmmm. So Google has made a deal with Wordfast that GT can "phish" from professional translators working with WF.
Does this mean that professional translators are continually improving GT all the time every time they use Wordfast, and digging their own graves as they go?
If so I suggest people should drop Wordfast....really fast. If not, the number of new topics in here about "I don't seem to be getting enough work" will only increase.
Why else would GT want... See more Hmmm. So Google has made a deal with Wordfast that GT can "phish" from professional translators working with WF.
Does this mean that professional translators are continually improving GT all the time every time they use Wordfast, and digging their own graves as they go?
If so I suggest people should drop Wordfast....really fast. If not, the number of new topics in here about "I don't seem to be getting enough work" will only increase.
Why else would GT want to link up with WF, if not for that reason?
I was thinking of starting to use WF but I'm not going to now and have deleted it from my computer.
[Edited at 2010-06-23 16:00 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Hi Monica,
The mac version will be released late next week/the week after. I will post a notification in this forum.
The print issue with Mac is not resolved in this build but we are working to resolve it in version 2.4.1
Sincerely,
Kristyna
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| Google Translate | Jun 24, 2010 |
While Google may have the ability to store the source language text that is fed into it by Wordfast, Google does not have access to the translation completed by you. Google translate cannot improve itself by the mere insertion of source data. All Google would theoretically have (if it saved everything) is your source text and the generated MT and this would change nothing. Improving the system requires both source and target data. Otherwise it will keep churning out the same identical text.
... See more While Google may have the ability to store the source language text that is fed into it by Wordfast, Google does not have access to the translation completed by you. Google translate cannot improve itself by the mere insertion of source data. All Google would theoretically have (if it saved everything) is your source text and the generated MT and this would change nothing. Improving the system requires both source and target data. Otherwise it will keep churning out the same identical text.
The point to watch out for, however, it that it is possible for Google to have access to certain confidential information (if they had someone who could read the source language and/or interpret the MT output) and that is where caution needs to be taken whether you use Wordfast or just enter the text yourself.
Tom in London wrote:
Hmmm. So Google has made a deal with Wordfast that GT can "phish" from professional translators working with WF.
Does this mean that professional translators are continually improving GT all the time every time they use Wordfast, and digging their own graves as they go?
If so I suggest people should drop Wordfast....really fast. If not, the number of new topics in here about "I don't seem to be getting enough work" will only increase.
Why else would GT want to link up with WF, if not for that reason?
I was thinking of starting to use WF but I'm not going to now and have deleted it from my computer.
[Edited at 2010-06-23 16:00 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-06-24 01:16 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-06-24 01:17 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-06-24 01:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thank you :-) | Jun 24, 2010 |
Kristyna Marrero wrote:
Arianne Farah wrote:
I would LOVE if we could turn "on" the MT but that it would only appear in the bottom boxes - not in the actual cell being translated - that way I could glance at it to see if it had any value or a particularly apt turn of phrase (a few times, amongst the poor grammar and mistranslations, there have been short fragments that are 100% on the nose and that, I admit, I wouldn't have thought of myself) rather than having to delete it from the cell.
Hi Arianne,
You can do this now with the release of Wordfast Pro 2.4 (available for download here - www.wordfast.com/store_download.html). Go to Edit > Preferences > Machine Translation and click Enable Machine Translation (you will also notice that we have added a warning message). Then, choose whether you want to always perform MT or only when there is no TM match . Once you've enabled MT, go to Edit > Preferences > Translation Memory > and check off Perform TM lookup automatically. This will show the MT match in the TM lookup window and give you the option of placing it in the target segment by using the MT icon or right clicking the segment and choosing Machine Translation.
Hope this helps,
Kristyna
I much prefer this way Thank you
Now if something could be done about the 5-10 minute lookup time in my master memory (1GB main wordfast txt that I run once against the source for matches but then deactivate in a favour of a client -specific TM that's less than 5MB since a simple concordance search takes forever with anything bigger)... and if the concordance search could also be fuzzy matched and not a simple "yes" or "no" search.
| | | | Neil Coffey
Великобритания
Local time: 11:32
французский => английский
+ ...
| Confidentiality | Jun 24, 2010 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
The point to watch out for, however, it that it is possible for Google to have access to certain confidential information (if they had someone who could read the source language and/or interpret the MT output) and that is where caution needs to be taken whether you use Wordfast or just enter the text yourself.
It also means that the program will be sending anything you translate unencrypted over the network. So if you're sitting working in an Internet cafe, the cafe owners (or anybody with sufficient access to the network) could theoretically steal the contents of the translation.
On the other hand, if either the source or translation are sent via e-mail, then they've already been sent over an inherently insecure communications channel. And if you use gmail, then Google already have your data whether you use Google Translate or not...
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