| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3] > | Never read it through first! Автор темы: James (Jim) Davis
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| I always read it through first -- and make notes | Nov 3, 2012 |
I always read the text first, (maybe not the whole thing in the case of legal translation), but a page or two before I start translating, and then read each page as they approach. I make notes about any unclear phrases or problem sentences. This is regardless of what tools I use.
| | | | Kay Denney 
Франция
Local time: 12:50
французский => английский
| Flashes of inspiration | Nov 4, 2012 |
James (Jim) Davis wrote:
To Phil, I find that the "flashes" are good, but they are rare. I also find that if you don't put them down, you lose them. Paul McCartney said that the tune for the song "yesterday" came to him when he was in bed I think . Anyway he had to put it immediately to words, not the words we know, but just any words, because if he didn't put it to words he would forget the tune, lose it. I think it is the same sort of thing with my "flashes", except I'll never make millions from them.
The actual words were "scrambled eggs" and he has since used them for other songs too
I prefer to do a draft as I read for the first time because I find just reading too frustrating and I'm terrified I might not remember a flash of inspiration. Also because I am prone to TOT moments, which mostly resolve themselves in between the draft and the edit.
I use double question marks ?? before the word when I've left it in the SL and after it if I know what I have put needs serious work on, then I sometimes simply do a search for ?? and do all the tough nuts in one session (that usually happens if I get a booster or stumble across a website that looks like it might just help with all terms). I systematically do a search for all instances of each tough nut once I have a solution, put them in a glossary for that client or field, and then do one final search for ?? along with the final spell check.
| | | | | Are some people serious here, saying they use glossaries and MT help | Nov 4, 2012 |
in literary translation, unless I misunderstood something. Wouldn't the book feel like, or rather read like, a book written by a robot?
I cannot imagine it myself.
P.S. I am really sorry about a repetition in my previous post, but it is over 24 hours and I cannot correct it. Doesn't literature and literary translation have to come from inspiration, among other things?
| | | | | Nobody said that... | Nov 4, 2012 |
I haven't seen anyone saying they were using MT on literary translations.
Someone mentioned MultiTerm, not MachineTranslation.
And glossaries? Why on earth shouldn't we use glossaries? I doubt that heavenly inspiration comes over us as soon as we translate a literal text rather than a user manual. Probably some of us even will use dictionaries! O_o
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James (Jim) Davis
Сейшельские острова
Local time: 15:50
Член ProZ.com c 2022
итальянский => английский
Автор темы
TM not MT help and a dictionary is just a big glossary. I don't do purely literary translations, but art and architectural criticism, which sometimes seems to require miraculous inspiration.
The TM memory simply contains in my case all the translations I've done in the last eight years.
If a word or phrase is giving me problems, I just search my TM and see all my previous translations of the term. They are human translations I have already done myself.
If you ... See more TM not MT help and a dictionary is just a big glossary. I don't do purely literary translations, but art and architectural criticism, which sometimes seems to require miraculous inspiration.
The TM memory simply contains in my case all the translations I've done in the last eight years.
If a word or phrase is giving me problems, I just search my TM and see all my previous translations of the term. They are human translations I have already done myself.
If you were to tell architects not to use computers, because their creations should come from inspiration they look at you a little strangely, especially the younger ones.
CAD is computer assisted design, CAT is computer assisted translation. MT is rubbish at least in my language pair. It is Machine Translation and what Google Translation gives you. ▲ Collapse
| | | | James (Jim) Davis
Сейшельские острова
Local time: 15:50
Член ProZ.com c 2022
итальянский => английский
Автор темы | @Anna Sarah Krämer on dictionaries | Nov 4, 2012 |
I use them all the time, especially on literary type texts. Most languages contain upwards of 200,000 words and most of them have upwards of 5-6 definitions each.
I seldom come across a word I don't know. What I am looking for usually is synonyms in the target language. The reason I start looking is usually because no synonyms exist in the target language or I just can't remember them.
The really strange thing is that quite frequently the very act of reaching for a dictionary works ... See more I use them all the time, especially on literary type texts. Most languages contain upwards of 200,000 words and most of them have upwards of 5-6 definitions each.
I seldom come across a word I don't know. What I am looking for usually is synonyms in the target language. The reason I start looking is usually because no synonyms exist in the target language or I just can't remember them.
The really strange thing is that quite frequently the very act of reaching for a dictionary works as if by magic and the translation comes to me. Or alternatively, while I am looking at all the translations of the definitions, which I've seen so many times before, a translation comes to me, which isn't of course in the dictionary.
In sum a dictionary seems to help me think out of the box. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
Китай
Local time: 19:50
китайский => английский
| Reference works for inspiration | Nov 4, 2012 |
James (Jim) Davis wrote:
...The really strange thing is that quite frequently the very act of reaching for a dictionary works as if by magic and the translation comes to me. Or alternatively, while I am looking at all the translations of the definitions, which I've seen so many times before, a translation comes to me, which isn't of course in the dictionary.
In sum a dictionary seems to help me think out of the box.
That's how it works for me as well. My favourite reference is freethesaurus.net, a thesaurus which doesn't divide up its synonyms by different senses of a word. It just presents them all in a great block, and I love browsing through them and just letting my mind associate. It's not about finding the word you want, it's about opening up channels to find new words.
As for whether glossaries can be applied to literary texts... I know what Lilian means, but terminological consistency (or inconsistency) can be as important in literature as in any other kind of text. Writing competent literary texts is a skill, which can be learned and must be practiced. Writing great/inspired literature - that may need a bit more. But we're not often called on to do that!
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
Индия
Local time: 17:20
Член ProZ.com c 2006
английский => хинди
+ ...
ЛОКАЛИЗАТОР САЙТА | I start translating right away... | Nov 5, 2012 |
... without reading the whole thing over before. But I come back to the translation after I have finished to fine-tune the translation.
Sometimes, if deadlines permit, after finishing the translation I leave it to incubate for a day, and come back to it with a fresh mind to do the editing.
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Nicole Schnell
США
Local time: 03:50
английский => немецкий
+ ...
Памяти
James (Jim) Davis wrote:
I'm kicking myself with a translation, because I read it through first. I saw two difficult turns of phrase and the solutions just flashed in front of my eyes. Now that I am actually translating it, I can't remember the brilliant intuitions I had and I'm trying to invent the wheel again.
In the old days of the typewriter, if you didn't read it through first, or at least a couple of sentences ahead, you ended up with a pile of waste paper in the bin as you kept tearing up the sheet to rewrite it again. The recommended standard procedure was to read it through and take notes with pen and paper, before actually touching the keyboard.
Today, with a computer, my standard practice is to actually translate rather than take notes as I read it through for the first time, and then I go back over it, twice or even three times or more. Only very occasionally do I read ahead, when I can't make head or tail of something.
So how many people are working like me, and how many still follow the old fashioned ways?
I might not hire you. I need people who get the big picture and have their work mapped out before they start typing. We specialize in marketing and management texts, and I expect my writers - sorry for being graphic now - to finish each ad, article or page of a website in a linguistic orgasm rather than some linguistic diarrhea.
| | | | James (Jim) Davis
Сейшельские острова
Local time: 15:50
Член ProZ.com c 2022
итальянский => английский
Автор темы
Nicole Schnell wrote:
I might not hire you.
To get the big picture with marketing texts, you just have to look at the first word (sun) and the last word (backside) and you've got the big pic. With what "management texts" ?? I suppose they are texts written by managment. When you have done a couple of thousand, which I did reading them through and taking notes in the days of typewriters, you have done them all.
As for your graphic language, I'd appreciate it if you took back to where you found it. I never work for agencies anyway.
| | | | James (Jim) Davis
Сейшельские острова
Local time: 15:50
Член ProZ.com c 2022
итальянский => английский
Автор темы | @Balasubramaniam L. | Nov 5, 2012 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
... without reading the whole thing over before. But I come back to the translation after I have finished to fine-tune the translation.
Sometimes, if deadlines permit, after finishing the translation I leave it to incubate for a day, and come back to it with a fresh mind to do the editing.
Yes the final read through, is vital, and best done at least after a night's sleep. You need to check it against the source text as you translate bit by bit, while the source text is still fresh in your mind. Then the final read through is done without reference to the target, so that the final text reads totally naturally and is not conditioned by the words of the target, but by the function, meaning and spirit of the author's text. Or anyway, that is how I work.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
США
Local time: 03:50
английский => немецкий
+ ...
Памяти
James (Jim) Davis wrote:
Nicole Schnell wrote:
I might not hire you.
To get the big picture with marketing texts, you just have to look at the first word (sun) and the last word (backside) and you've got the big pic. With what "management texts" ?? I suppose they are texts written by managment. When you have done a couple of thousand, which I did reading them through and taking notes in the days of typewriters, you have done them all.
As for your graphic language, I'd appreciate it if you took back to where you found it. I never work for agencies anyway.
"Management texts" usually refers to internal communication and company politics within international corporations. You will never be able to read any of such texts online as they are highly confidential. The translator is the voice of the CEO of a world market leader. Please tell me that you are not one of those translators who can not tell the difference between advertising, marketing and management.
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James (Jim) Davis
Сейшельские острова
Local time: 15:50
Член ProZ.com c 2022
итальянский => английский
Автор темы
This was a very friendly chat, until you insulted me with toilent language and put a smiley under it. Please go away.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
США
Local time: 03:50
английский => немецкий
+ ...
Памяти | Not a problem. | Nov 5, 2012 |
James (Jim) Davis wrote:
This was a very friendly chat, until you insulted me with toilent language and put a smiley under it. Please go away.
As long as you don't insult outstanding and highly cherished colleagues any longer by calling their work methods "old-fashioned".
Thanks!
Best,
Nicole
| | | | | Some like to read it first, others dont. It depends on the translator. Thats it. | Nov 5, 2012 |
I usually just read and don't post anything but I felt like I had to post something about this particular topic since nobody else has mentioned it so far.
Some translators like reading the text first, others don't, they start translating right away.
I also think it depends on the size of the project they are translating. There are translators that do it both ways, they read it first when the document is short, but if they are translating a book then it's a different story.... See more I usually just read and don't post anything but I felt like I had to post something about this particular topic since nobody else has mentioned it so far.
Some translators like reading the text first, others don't, they start translating right away.
I also think it depends on the size of the project they are translating. There are translators that do it both ways, they read it first when the document is short, but if they are translating a book then it's a different story.
Everybody has their own style and of course they will disagree after reading about the only opposite way there is about this particular subject. ▲ Collapse
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