| Страниц в теме: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | Macedonian vs Macedonian conceptual conflict Автор темы: Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ
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| to sherefedin | Sep 10, 2007 |
Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Biljana Vasileva Bojcev wrote:
And that is why I agree with (FYROM)
Macedonia (FYROM) you mean, I guess and agree with.
Sherefedin
Yes, I have already edited it
Macedonia (FYROM)
Thank you
Biljana
| | | | | Are you still there? | Sep 10, 2007 |
Dear Henry, Enrique, Said, Maria, Elena, Gabriela, Victor, Biljana, Emilija....
Do you all agree if I resume and propose:
Language name (English version): Macedonian
Country name (English version): Macedonia (FYROM).
Thank you.
Sherefedin
| | | | Maria Karra 
США
Local time: 04:01
Член ProZ.com c 2000
греческий (новогреческий) => английский
+ ...
| acronym or full name | Sep 10, 2007 |
Said Kaljanac a.k.a. SARAJ wrote:
I'm sorry Maria, but when I read your posts I see more anger than anything else.
Sorry if this is the impression I gave. I'm not angry, I simply find this part of the discussion absurd because we said we'd follow ISO and instead we're making exceptions and new abbreviation rules.
Hopefully in my posts you also saw a legitimate question, i.e. whether the existing acronym is FYROM or not, and whether or not we should be using this existing acronym if we decide not to write out the full name of the country.
In your posts you also said that anything else than FYROM is inaccurate. This is not true, since the name is The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, which makes it as accurate as FYROM.
No Said, this is not what I wrote. In my post I was talking about the acronym (the title of my post was "existing acronym". Any acronym other than FYROM is inaccurate; this is what I meant and I apologize if it wasn't clear. To reiterate, I think that we should either use the existing acronym (FYROM) or the full name "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia".
We both know that the name doesn't end with a preposition
Right.
| | | | | Check this out | Sep 10, 2007 |
Instead of arguing pointlessly, if we apply ISO standards, we apply them. But we also have to bear in mind that ISO standards are commonly abbreaviated within companies and International bodies without disrespecting the ISO standards.
Check it out for yourself:
http://www.taxonomystrategies.com/presentations/LocationTerminologies.ppt.
Long names are more frequently abbreviated.
Macedonia, FYR
-
Macedonia, former Yugoslav Republic of
The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
MACEDONIA, THE FORMER YUGOSLAV REPUBLIC OF
MKD
[Edited at 2007-09-10 22:45]
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Gabriela Nikolova
Македония (FYROM)
Local time: 10:01
английский => македонский
+ ...
Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Dear Henry, Enrique, Said, Maria, Elena, Gabriela, Victor, Biljana, Emilija....
Do you all agree if I resume and propose:
Language name (English version): Macedonian
Country name (English version): Macedonia (FYROM).
Thank you.
Sherefedin
Yes, I agree, I think the best acceptable solution for all of us.
Regards,
Gabriela
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Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Dear Henry, Enrique, Said, Maria, Elena, Gabriela, Victor, Biljana, Emilija....
Do you all agree if I resume and propose:
Language name (English version): Macedonian
Country name (English version): Macedonia (FYROM).
Thank you.
Sherefedin
Looks good to me.
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Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Dear Henry, Enrique, Said, Maria, Elena, Gabriela, Victor, Biljana, Emilija....
Do you all agree if I resume and propose:
Language name (English version): Macedonian
Country name (English version): Macedonia (FYROM).
Thank you.
Sherefedin
Agree.
| | | | Elena Petelos
Великобритания
Local time: 09:01
английский => греческий (новогреческий)
+ ...
| Linguistics forum? | Sep 10, 2007 |
Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Do you realize that an average outsourcer outside the Balkans doesn't even know what this artificial accronym means?
They will have to google first before they understand which country is concerned.
Then either the average outsourcer rarely watches the news, e.g.:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2001/4159.htm
or this is not a linguistics forum.
Similarly, you are saying that "Macedonia (FYROM)" is crystal clear, whereas "FYROM (Macedonia)" is very confusing, and that "Macedonian (Slavic)" (btw: "Makedonski is slavic by its own right) is confusing whereas "Macedonian" is crystal clear. I think, I do follow.
Kind regards
El.
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Elena Petelos wrote:
Biljana Vasileva Bojcev wrote:
I think that this is pointless, FYROM is the offical acronym of Republic of Macedonia until the problem is solved....
Exactly.
It should stay Macedonia and, there might be (FYROM) added.
And it should stay Macedonia because the official acronym is "FYROM"?
The rest of the world can go ahead and use the official name, but here in Proz.com we might as well leave it as it is. I do have a problem following your reasoning.
I do understand this is a very important issue for people from FYROM. However, I fail to understand why nobody seems to be taking into consideration it is an equally important matter for Greek people -especially those who come from Macedonia -like Maria and Vicky.
Kind regards
El.
edit
We both know that the name doesn't end with a preposition, but that is simply informative and also an exception.
Equally informative -as you probably know as a linguist- would have been to add "Slavic". Or more accurately "Northern Macedonian Slavic" or "South Slavic" -despite the fact the (former recognized dialect's) name would not have served any political purposes. But you did not want to do that. You do understand, I hope, that you might all be getting carried away, as if the name of the country changes to something like "Northern Macedonia" -probably more accurate and easily understood than anything else (and despite the Greek state would probably not react so well to this as well)- you are compromising future entries, as a change in the official country name is more than likely to follow.
Kind regards
El. [Edited at 2007-09-10 21:41]
I am sorry, but I am not going to go through this once again. As you pointed it out, as a linguist I am telling you that there is no other LANGUAGE called Macedonian than the Slavic one. Now think about it.
| | | | Maria Karra
США
Local time: 04:01
Член ProZ.com c 2000
греческий (новогреческий) => английский
+ ...
| my suggestion | Sep 10, 2007 |
Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Dear Henry, Enrique, Said, Maria, Elena, Gabriela, Victor, Biljana, Emilija....
Do you all agree if I resume and propose:
Language name (English version): Macedonian
Country name (English version): Macedonia (FYROM).
Thank you.
Sherefedin
Language name (English version): Macedonian (MK) (add ISO code if we add it to other languages too)
Country name (English version): FYROM
or where there is space: The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
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Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Dear Henry, Enrique, Said, Maria, Elena, Gabriela, Victor, Biljana, Emilija....
Do you all agree if I resume and propose:
Language name (English version): Macedonian
Country name (English version): Macedonia (FYROM).
Thank you.
Sherefedin
| | | | Vicky Papaprodromou
Греция
Local time: 11:01
Член ProZ.com c 2004
английский => греческий (новогреческий)
+ ...
| I agree with Maria | Sep 10, 2007 |
Maria Karra wrote:
Language name (English version): Macedonian (MK) (add ISO code if we add it to other languages too)
Country name (English version): FYROM
or where there is space: The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
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Elena Petelos wrote:
Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Do you realize that an average outsourcer outside the Balkans doesn't even know what this artificial accronym means?
They will have to google first before they understand which country is concerned.
Then either the average outsourcer rarely watches the news, e.g.:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2001/4159.htm
or this is not a linguistics forum.
Correct!
Have you ever been contacted by an outsourcer for a translation into Macedonian?
I do not believe you have because there is no other language to associate with this name than the Macedonian used in the Republic of Macedonia or, if you really insist, Macedonia, i.e. Macedonia (FYROM).
Sherefedin
| | | | d_miteva
Словения
Local time: 10:01
английский => македонский
+ ...
El.
[Edited at 2007-09-10 21:41] [/quote]
I am sorry, but I am not going to go through this once again. As you pointed it out, as a linguist I am telling you that there is no other LANGUAGE called Macedonian than the Slavic one. Now think about it. [/quote]
So, why are all these discussions, headaches and insults for one week now?!?!?!
Either ProZ applies the ISO standards for all countries and languages or doesn't use them at all.
As ... See more El.
[Edited at 2007-09-10 21:41] [/quote]
I am sorry, but I am not going to go through this once again. As you pointed it out, as a linguist I am telling you that there is no other LANGUAGE called Macedonian than the Slavic one. Now think about it. [/quote]
So, why are all these discussions, headaches and insults for one week now?!?!?!
Either ProZ applies the ISO standards for all countries and languages or doesn't use them at all.
As Said and others said: Macedonia, the Former Yugoslav Republic of
regards
Daniela ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Split reaction | Sep 10, 2007 |
Maria Karra wrote:
Language name (English version): Macedonian (MK) (add ISO code if we add it to other languages too)
Country name (English version): FYROM
or where there is space: The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.
I could accept the addition of the two letter language code (and would be happy for this to apply to my languages, too).
But the country name as only "FYROM" is misleading and often meaningless, for reasons that I have already stated, and it is certainly not taken from the ISO page that Said referred us to.
Elena Petelos wrote:
Sherefedin MUSTAFA wrote:
Do you realize that an average outsourcer outside the Balkans doesn't even know what this artificial accronym means?
They will have to google first before they understand which country is concerned.
Then either the average outsourcer rarely watches the news, e.g.:
http://www.state.gov/secretary/former/powell/remarks/2001/4159.htm
or this is not a linguistics forum.
I note that the speech you refer to includes one instance of "FYROM" without any qualifier and one instance of "Macedonia" without any qualifier. I assume that you were referring us to both of these instances, as an example of the mixed terminology used by politicians.
As you suggest, this is an interesting phenomenon for us as linguists.
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