| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51] > | New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators Thread poster: Enrique Cavalitto
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| A lot of arguments on both sides | Jun 24, 2006 |
Well, it looks like many people have presented arguments both for and against this new feature.
What I am having trouble understanding is why the new feature must be IMPOSED on everyone. If it is a great new feature that a good number of people would like to use, then by all means, give it to those people who want to use it and let them promote themselves by those means, if they feel it best fits their particular business model.
But if there are a great number of folks ... See more Well, it looks like many people have presented arguments both for and against this new feature.
What I am having trouble understanding is why the new feature must be IMPOSED on everyone. If it is a great new feature that a good number of people would like to use, then by all means, give it to those people who want to use it and let them promote themselves by those means, if they feel it best fits their particular business model.
But if there are a great number of folks who feel that this feature does NOT fit their business model, then I cannot see why it is necessary to force them to use it. Surely providing this feature to those who wish raises the attractiveness of the site to them -- would not providing the option NOT to use it increase the attractiveness of the site in parallel to those people who don't want it? Seems like providing a true HIDE feature to the folks who don't want any feature would actually benefit the site at the end of the day. And it is doable in terms of computer code.
Everyone's translation practice is different -- different combinations, different locations, different client bases -- so it's not quite reasonable in my view to expect that everyone would want precisely the same features, or should be forced to accept them on something tantamount to "your personal space on ProZ".
Of course at the end of the day another point should be made: if you are a professional translator and your only Web presence is through ProZ, you need to think seriously about your marketing plan in this day and age. On YOUR Web site you control everything.
I have to admit that I don't usually follow the fora here, and it's a bit scary to think that the simple failure not to log in for a time means that your entire profile, which you were satisfied with the last time you logged in, now looks significantly different, and to your detriment.
Guess it's time for anyone who doesn't like the new features to simply re-do their profile to reduce its content to a single line: Please visit my Web site at www.such-and-such.com. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | You can get a refund | Jun 24, 2006 |
MichaelRS wrote:
Here's something to think about:
You pay your membership fee in advance; as far as I know, there's no mechanism for getting your pro rata money back.
That's not true. We do and have always offered prorated refunds to all members, at any time, for any reason. (This is stated on the membership pages.) The means of getting your refund is to submit a support ticket.
| | | | | Another vote against | Jun 24, 2006 |
I join those who have expressed the idea that having no feedback will be seen as negative and will give a misleading impression.
I'd be unlikely to receive feedback because nearly all of my clients are unconnected with ProZ. The lack of feedback might suggest to a visitor checking my profile that I'm inactive, inexperienced, or lacking in competence but this wouldn't be true at all.
| | | | cmwilliams (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:01
French to English
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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
... We are not equal to agencies and if I'm correct, this site is supposed to support translators, not the other way 'round. How come we pay to be members and outsourcers can post their jobs for free?
Giovanni
I'm also concerned about the way the new feedback feature has been implemented. In fact, I can't really see a need for it as we already have 'Project History' where outsourcers can make comments. Like many others, I would like to have the "feedback" option removed altogether.
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| Sormane, writeaway, Terry, please don't confuse the issue of opting out | Jun 24, 2006 |
Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote: writeaway wrote:
Those who want to use all the features can do so and those who don't, won't have to. ce it's all optional, it can be arranged as we would like to present ourselves, not as we are forced to.
That is all most of us here are asking: To make it optional. [/quote]
Terry wrote:
What I am having trouble understanding is why the new feature must be IMPOSED on everyone.
Folks, I would ask you to be more precise with your language. You should not suggest that the use of this new feature is mandatory, or that anything is being "imposed". Those who do not want to use this feature do not have to. It is possible to opt out of showing feedback in your profile.
Some people have been confused by your statements.
| | | | Sormane Gomes
United States
Local time: 01:01
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| I will try to be clearer this time. | Jun 24, 2006 |
Henry wrote: Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote: writeaway wrote:
Those who want to use all the features can do so and those who don't, won't have to. ce it's all optional, it can be arranged as we would like to present ourselves, not as we are forced to. That is all most of us here are asking: To make it optional.
Terry wrote:
What I am having trouble understanding is why the new feature must be IMPOSED on everyone.
Folks, I would ask you to be more precise with your language. You should not suggest that the use of this new feature is mandatory, or that anything is being "imposed". Those who do not want to use this feature do not have to. It is possible to opt out of showing feedback in your profile.
Some people have been confused by your statements. [/quote]
Henry,
I apologize for the confusion then. I will try to be clearer this time.
I want the option of having the entire Feedback feature [sign, star, arrow...everything) off my profile page. NOT just the feedback posted by clients, agencies...whoever, but the entire feature removed from my page. I want people to open my profile and see no sign of this feature.
A) Is that possible?
B) If not, please explain why not.
If you would please address this point I would appreciate it.
I thank you in advance.
Sormane F. Gomes
| | | | Susana Galilea
United States
Local time: 00:01
English to Spanish
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| that makes two of us | Jun 24, 2006 |
Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote:
A) Is that possible?
B) If not, please explain why not.
If you would please address this point I would appreciate it.
A big thank you,
Susana
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 01:01
English to Spanish
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Although fmpov it was clear enough the first time it was spelled out as a yes or no question.
Fascinating.
--
Dyran
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Larissa Dinsley
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:01
Member (2003)
English to Russian
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This is exactly what A LOT of people have been talking about - no confusion.
Regards,
Larissa
Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote:
I apologize for the confusion then. I will try to be clearer this time.
I want the option of having the entire Feedback feature [sign, star, arrow...everything) off my profile page. NOT just the feedback posted by clients, agencies...whoever, but the entire feature removed from my page. I want people to open my profile and see no sign of this feature.
A) Is that possible?
B) If not, please explain why not.
If you would please address this point I would appreciate it.
I thank you in advance.
Sormane F. Gomes
[Edited at 2006-06-24 15:28]
| | | | | My exact query... | Jun 24, 2006 |
Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote: Henry wrote: Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote: writeaway wrote:
Those who want to use all the features can do so and those who don't, won't have to. ce it's all optional, it can be arranged as we would like to present ourselves, not as we are forced to. That is all most of us here are asking: To make it optional. Terry wrote:
What I am having trouble understanding is why the new feature must be IMPOSED on everyone. Folks, I would ask you to be more precise with your language. You should not suggest that the use of this new feature is mandatory, or that anything is being "imposed". Those who do not want to use this feature do not have to. It is possible to opt out of showing feedback in your profile. Some people have been confused by your statements.
Henry,
I apologize for the confusion then. I will try to be clearer this time.
I want the option of having the entire Feedback feature [sign, star, arrow...everything) off my profile page. NOT just the feedback posted by clients, agencies...whoever, but the entire feature removed from my page. I want people to open my profile and see no sign of this feature.
A) Is that possible?
B) If not, please explain why not.
If you would please address this point I would appreciate it.
I thank you in advance.
Sormane F. Gomes [/quote]
Thank you Sormane- My thoughts exactly. I've posted basically the same simple question and haven't seen any answers.
I simply want to control what others see in my profile page.
And I would very much appreciate if someone could address my query about the OLD profile format- I can choose it as my default profile page, but when I log off and go to my profile through the directory, the new one comes up. So- what's the point?
Jennifer
| | | | | OK, Ralf, we'll do the trial run. | Jun 24, 2006 |
Ralf Lemster wrote:
Given that
- the system is still under development (as you indicated yourself);
- not too many outsourcers will use it to begin with; and
- there is obviously a need for more explanation, and fine-tuning;
I propose to start this off with a trial run. Deactivate the WWA feedback function for the site population at large - instead, start the system off with profile owners who volunteer using it (with real comments, obviously). Once the mechanisms (including checks and balances) have emerged to form a clearer picture, and necessary adjustments have been made, you can roll it out across the site.
As an outsourcer, I would support this by encouraging the freelancers I work with to participate, and by posting feedback myself.
This sounds like a fair suggestion, given the passions expressed here. OK, we can do a trial run.
What we can do is opt everyone out from showing feedback for the duration of the trial period (except those who are already using it). This will address any concerns about damage to reputation when "taken by surprise" by a negative entry, and, as you point out, give us a chance to build a robust system of checks and balances.
What we can not do is turn off the ability for outsourcers to make entries for all profiles (which means, in turn, that visitors will see the option to make entries in your profile). Without this, not only would the system be much weaker, it would also not give us the information we need to make improvements during this period. I hope those opposed to the thought of feedback being entered, even when no one else will see it, can understand the importance of this to the system and to testing. If it is not evident why this is so, perhaps you can take my word for it. On the other hand, if you can't and don't, I would ask you simply to show some forebearance (at least for the trial period), in light of the fact that others in the community do want to make use of this feature.
In other words, please just put up with the box in your profile for now.
To you, Ralf, thanks for your willingness to promote the trial use of this feature among the service providers to whom you have outsourced.
| | | | | Answer to Sormane | Jun 24, 2006 |
Sormane Fitzgerald Gomes wrote:
I apologize for the confusion then. I will try to be clearer this time.
I want the option of having the entire Feedback feature [sign, star, arrow...everything) off my profile page. NOT just the feedback posted by clients, agencies...whoever, but the entire feature removed from my page. I want people to open my profile and see no sign of this feature.
A) Is that possible?
B) If not, please explain why not.
If you would please address this point I would appreciate it.
Thanks, Sormane, for making the issue concrete. Obviously your question is shared by others. I'll explain.
The feature announcement says:
Opting out
It is possible to opt out of displaying feedback in your profile, and you may do so freely as suits your purposes.
It is not possible to opt out of receiving feedback... This means that you might receive feedback from clients, but you will be the only one who sees it.
The FAQ (posted shortly after the announcement) says:
43. Can I opt out of showing feedback in my profile?
Yes, you can opt in and out at will, thereby showing or not showing *all* feedback received. (It is not possible to opt out of showing individual entries.)
44. Can I opt out of receiving feedback, too?
No. Outsourcers will be able to enter feedback, but if you opt not to show it, only you will see it.
Why? If profile owners were allowed to opt in and out of receiving feedback at will, it would undermine the usefulness of the feedback system.
So what we feel is necessary is the ability for outsourcers to make entries. That is why the box is there in the profile now, even if you opt not to show feedback.
I suppose the option to make entries could take a different form, or be placed somewhere other than profiles. We could try that, if the appearance of the option (now a box) in the profile is what is objectionable.
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Sormane Gomes
United States
Local time: 01:01
Portuguese to English
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Henry wrote:
I suppose the option to make entries could take a different form, or be placed somewhere other than profiles. We could try that, if the appearance of the option (now a box) in the profile is what is objectionable.
That sounds reasonable: "...or be placed somewhere other than profiles." Let's see what the others have to say.
Thank you for your prompt response.
Sormane F. Gomes
[Edited at 2006-06-24 16:23]
| | | | cmwilliams (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:01
French to English
+ ...
| Thanks Henry, but.... | Jun 24, 2006 |
why is it necessary to have a feedback section? I know of no other profession where clients/colleagues are encouraged to make personal comments about each other in such a public manner. I know we have the Blue Board, but this is very specifically for payment problems and, hopefully, strictly regulated. Further, as far as I am aware, access is restricted to paying members of Proz and not members of the public who may accidentally come across it during an internet search.
Having 'fe... See more why is it necessary to have a feedback section? I know of no other profession where clients/colleagues are encouraged to make personal comments about each other in such a public manner. I know we have the Blue Board, but this is very specifically for payment problems and, hopefully, strictly regulated. Further, as far as I am aware, access is restricted to paying members of Proz and not members of the public who may accidentally come across it during an internet search.
Having 'feedback' on individual profiles, whether good or bad, does not seem like a good idea to me and I wonder whether it's even legal. I know you say we can opt out, but that doesn't really solve the problem since, as others have already pointed out, it will seem that those who opt out have something to hide.
Could you please reconsider and remove the feedback box completely from profiles. Thank you.
[Edited at 2006-06-24 18:41] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Corrections to cmwilliams | Jun 24, 2006 |
cmwilliams wrote:
why is it necessary to have a feedback section? I know of no other profession where clients/colleagues are encouraged to make personal comments about each other in such a public manner.
This system is for outsourcers to express their willingness to work again with given service providers. It is not for personal comments.
I know we have the Blue Board, but this is very specifically for payment problems...
No. It, too, is for expressing willingness to work again.
Further, as far as I am aware, access is restricted to paying members of Proz and not members of the public who may accidentally come across it during an internet search.
It is and has always been possible for non-paying registrants of ProZ.com to make entries to the Blue Board.
Having 'feedback' on individual profiles, whether good or bad, does not seem like a good idea to me...
Then you can opt not to show it.
and I wonder whether it's even legal. I know you say we can opt out, but that doesn't really solve the problem since, as others have already pointed out, it will seem that those who opt out have something to hide.
I hope it will seem that those who have opted not to show feedback in their profiles have simply opted not to make feedback part of their profile. (Maybe we should phrase it that way.) There should be no further assumptions made. If necessary, we will take steps to combat negative presumptions.
Thanks for posting!
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » New at ProZ.com: Outsourcer "willingness to work again" feedback for translators | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
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