Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 7, 2014:

Hi Katja Hmmmmm......let me think about it!

Katja Schoone Nov 7, 2014:

@ Ramey I like your Translation and I like the "unsäglich" and "erzählen" Idiom, but I'd suggest: ....bis ich die Botschaft verstanden hatte or .... bis die Botschaft bei mir ankam. "kapiert" is too colloquial for my liking.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 7, 2014:

Good Morning and Happy Friday! It is time to decide, and I have. Some of you may groan or clap your hands to your foreheads, but that's the risk every writer takes. In the future, I will post any questions referring to my own work under 'not for points'. There is no way I can honor all the support, except to maybe mention you all in my will. You would only inherit words. Many, much and grateful to Berit, Gudrun und Katja. (This is starting to sound like an Oscar speech)
Here's the final translation:

Als ich jünger war, glaubte ich, dass mein Leid den Geistern beweist, wie einmalig ich bin. Ich war unsäglich stolz auf den Verlust, auf das Leid und darauf, dass ich überlebt hatte, um die Geschichte zu erzählen. Ich war die Demütigste unter den Demütigen. Deswegen haben die Geister mir einen bösen Streich gespielt. Sie haben mir alles gegeben. Sie zwangen mich meinem Glück ins Auge zu schauen. Es dauerte Jahre, bis ich die Botschaft kapiert hatte.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 6, 2014:

Hi Berit It remains to be seen how much she tells. It is a short scenraio, which is what makes it so difficult to decoct. The images must be both sharp and expandable.
I am deeply grateful for your stamina, and good to know the text has gotten under your skin!

Berit Kostka, PhD Nov 6, 2014:

Then maybe this could be suggestion, something along the lines of:

Ich war stolz darauf, dass ich mich von all dem, was ich durchgemacht habe, das Leiden, die Verluste, nie habe unterkriegen lassen und es doch irgendwie geschafft habe, dass ich heute davon erzählen kann.<br><br>

The problem is, does she actually tell any tale of this in the text? If not, then I wouldn't like a literal translation of "tell the tale".

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 6, 2014:

THANK HEAVENS!! I was really worried there! Of course, it becomes blatant in the sentence about humility. But 'live to tell the tale' also has a subtle irony, almost as if she doesn't believe it herself, or the tale she told was another - not what she actually suffered.

Berit Kostka, PhD Nov 6, 2014:

It does come across, but IMO in the sentence about faking the humility. I read the whole thing as that she hardened up because of all the suffering and also possibly abusing the suffering as an excuse to be felt sorry for (like you explained to Katja and reflected in the sentence about faking humility). Only later she "got the message" (i.e. learnt the lesson) that that is not the way to live a truly happy life. <br><br>And actually I think the tale she may want to tell (or pass on at the end of her life) is that of her life lesson that took her so long to learn: be truly humble and happy despite bad things in your life and to stay open hearted.<br><br>

Btw, the only self-irony that I see in this paragraph is the last sentence - that it took her so long to "get it". D'uh.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 6, 2014:

The benefits of loss > people feel sorry for you
> it's an excellent excuse for being arrogant, insensitive and manipulative
What was once, perhaps as a child or young person, a survival mechanism, develops into an attitude of THE WORLD OWES ME.
The Messianic complex - chosen by God to suffer.
I'm shocked that this doesn't come across, so something must be wrong with the original text.

Yorkshireman Nov 6, 2014:

Berit Perhaps rephrasing would help.

In the sense of:

Proud of having survived to tell the tale, despite having lost and endured so much.

Berit Kostka, PhD Nov 6, 2014:

I wonder.. .. if the whole "live to tell the tale" (and pride of the loss and suffering) refers to simply her ability to build a wall around herself and be tough enough not to let all this suffering get to her too much, i.e. sie ließ sich nicht unterkriegen oder hat nie aufgegeben. ? Other than that the being proud of suffering doesn't make much sense to me either, but being proud of not being broken by suffering somehow does.

Yorkshireman Nov 6, 2014:

Weiter geht's Wouldn't "so proud" work just as well?

Although, pride in losing so much still seems a little odd to me.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 6, 2014:

Does it work at all?

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 6, 2014:

Weiter geht's Ich war unsäglich stolz auf den Verlust, auf das Leid und darauf, dass ich überlebte um die Geschichte zu erzählen.

I have changed the English to 'unspeakably proud'. I find the parallel to 'live to TELL the tale' irresistible. What do you think???

Jacek Konopka Nov 5, 2014:

@ Katja ist da- Sie ist an der Reihe. Man spricht ja über ein Leben, das Hoffnung bringt oder bringen kann, ein Leben, wo man - na ja- wirklich- wie in einem Märchen- noch etwas Wunderbares, Schönes erleben kann. AUSGEZEICHNET- eine Geschichte erzählen- das ist ja der Kern.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2014:

So many good ideas! Let me go into the idiom a bit further, because like all idioms, it is incredibly flexible. In this context, the protagonist feels her suffering gave her the right to special favors from the Spirits (God). Her humility was a PROJECTION of humility, not true humbleness. She was neurotic, to put it brutally, believing her traumata made her God's favorite (Jesus complex). The twist is that the Spirits HAVE favored her by granting her a long life, the time to heal her wounds and out grow her neurosis. Now, on her 104th brithday, she has long caught on to her own failings, her false humility. that the Spirits have played a dirty trick is of course, tongue in cheek. It is vital that the German translation reflects this.

Danik 2014 Nov 5, 2014:

Ich glaube ich habe jetzt erst verstanden, worum es eigentlich geht. Wahrscheinlich bin ich auf den Holzweg, aber naja, zum Kapitel Selbst-Ironie:... und dass ich meine Überlebungschancen glänzend übertroffen hatte!

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2014:

Aber klar doch Horst! Ich habe viel Zeit und bin noch am Sammeln und am Überlegen. Es ist ein privates Projekt, also keine Lieferfrist. Ausserdem, so gut wie Berits Vorschlag ist, fehlt es mir noch am Selbst-Ironie.

Horst Huber (X) Nov 5, 2014:

Bei so viel Zustimmung ist ein Vorschlag wohl überflüssig. Meiner wäre, "Ich war so stolz; hatte viel verloren, viel ertragen, und konnte am Ende noch davon erzählen."

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2014:

Ach JA I always make the same mistakes. And it actually should be 'hatte' since it's in the past. but I'm still not completely thrilled, and that's what I'm looking to be. Let's see if there are any late-comers or new-comers or already-been-theres with another slant. (SIGH)

Katja Schoone Nov 5, 2014:

@ Ramey I follow ;-) Then your suggestions sounds plausible to me, but you should change the person: .... und HABE immer noch ....

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2014:

@Katja That's the difficult part. She DID believe in the past that her uniqueness was born of her suffering. It's a trait you've certainly observed (in OTHERS, of course) when someone identifies so strongly with their suffering, even when it's years past, that he/she builds their entire image upon it. Like - I have suffered so much, God should favor me. A kind of reverse pride. Kids do it all the time, but it's in innocence, like comparing scars or wounds. A child's pride is in what they have survived, rightly so. But an adult, that wears their trials for everyone to see, usually manipulates their friends to gain what they want. Even God should give them a break. You follow?

Katja Schoone Nov 5, 2014:

@ Ramey Don't know whether she actually means to "show off" with her past?

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2014:

Okay, hau mich nicht but as I was pondering all these wonderful suggestions, my mind went off on another track. Theidiom is strongly peppered with self-irony. Is that evident in the suggestions? Am I missing some German sublety?
Anyway, my idea was ... und hat immer noch genug Luft damit anzugeben.
Of course, I can't be sure I haven't just blasted German grammar to smithereens or if this in some subtle way is inacceptible....

Danik 2014 Nov 5, 2014:

@Ramey I was just wondering, why it translates itself so easily and naturally into Portuguese. Some dirty trick the Spirits are playing on me, I suppose. Well, if its of any service you just tell me.

Katja Schoone Nov 5, 2014:

@Ramey in the right direction ;-)

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2014:

YES the original is in English.
@Katja, me too.

We're rollin' now!

Danik 2014 Nov 5, 2014:

Just a curiosity Ramey. Is the original of the text in English?

BrigitteHilgner Nov 5, 2014:

Zeugin / Zeugnis finde ich gut ... und dass ich trotzdem / trotz allem noch hier bin, um davon Zeugnis abzulegen
Ins Unreine gedacht. ;-)

Susanne Schiewe Nov 5, 2014:

vielleicht "und ich als Zeugin meines eigenen Leidens überlebte"/"damit es für all dieses Leiden wenigstens eine Zeugin gab" - das würde dann auch noch einmal die Ironie unterstreichen.

Katja Schoone Nov 5, 2014:

I like all the suggestions, but I miss the "to tell the tale" in all of them.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2014:

Hi Carolin Yes, the possiblities are manifold, which is why I placed the question here. It is a short scenario, something I write every year and then sweat blood over the translation.

Berit Kostka, PhD Nov 5, 2014:

I like zerbrochen also! Es spiegelt noch mehr das im Leben erfahrene Leid wider...

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2014:

YES dennoch habe ich schon integriert. Let me get my courage up, and I'll show you how I translated it. But I have to make some money first.

Carolin Haase Nov 5, 2014:

OK, ein Versuch: Ich bin geradezu stolz darauf, so viel verloren, so viel ertragen zu haben, ohne daran zerbrochen zu sein, um heute, in meinem biblischen Alter, endlich über alles/all das (what exactly?) sprechen zu können.
The possibilities are endless! What is it you are working on? Sounds good, I want to read it! :-)

Gudrun Wolfrath Nov 5, 2014:

und dennoch überlebt zu haben das "dennoch" wäre hier gut

Brigitte is right, there is no idiom for this in German.

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Nov 5, 2014:

Hi Brigitte I'm not looking for a true translation, but a poetic one. Feel FREE to interpret!!

BrigitteHilgner Nov 5, 2014:

überleben I know, it seems boring - but I don't think we have a "true" equivalent in German.