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bouche oesophagienne
Opérateur de compétence
Apr 11, 2020 18:12
4 yrs ago
44 viewers *
French term

Décalages temporaires sociaux

French to English Bus/Financial Finance (general) Balance sheet
Variation des impôts différés par nature
La variation des impôts différés de l’exercice est détaillée en fonction des bases d’impôts différés dans le tableau présenté ci-après :

Constitution du groupe
Variation
Compensation IDA/IDP
Allocation PPA
Change
Décembre 2019
Impôts différés actifs
Décalages temporaires sociaux
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 (parent company) timing differences
4 The parent company's temporary lags/gaps (between its net incomes and its taxable incomes)
3 timing differences by (group) company
3 -1 Provisional corporate offsets
3 -2 Temporary (short-term) corporate disparities
3 -3 temporary social gaps/inequalities
References
Impôts différés // décalages temporaires

Discussion

SafeTex Apr 13, 2020:
Reference material in general Hello

I think that François is right about one thing at least.

If we want to understand a French word or phrase, we tend to look at French websites or dictionaries

But if we think a French word/phase may mean x in English, we would go to English websites to check out the exact meaning of x in English to see if it concurs with our French expression and what the French means

So I don't understand Daryo's objection

"your ref (1) is NOT from France"

You just have to look at other French words/phrases in THIS same language pair to see that Daryo's references are NOT always from France

Regards
Francois Boye Apr 13, 2020:
Daryo écrit:

Il en est par exemple ainsi pour des opérations réalisées au cours d’un exercice mais qui ne sont imposables ou déductibles qu’au titre d’un exercice ultérieur.

Que dit d'autre le document d'IRS ? Rien d'autre !

Daryo me dit qu'IRS ne se trouve pas en France, comme si la France parlait anglais, comme si les concepts d'Outre-Atlantique ne pouvaient pas être une traduction en anglais de concepts en français !
Rob Grayson Apr 13, 2020:
@philgoddard Re your comment on Adrian MM's answer, neither "group company timing differences" nor "intragroup timing differences" make any sense to me. Here's one definition of timing differences: "Timing difference arises when the recognition of certain item in the financial statements occurs in a different time than its recognition in tax return." Under IFRS, timing differences arise on the tax liabilities of a given entity, not between companies in a group.
Rob Grayson Apr 13, 2020:
(contd.) 2. Given (1), perhaps you'd care to suggest what the function of "sociaux" is here? As far as I can see, there's no need for it to be included (and it would be surprising and odd for it to be included) if all it's doing is saying "Oh, by the way, in case you didn't realise, we're talking about a company here".
Rob Grayson Apr 13, 2020:
@Daryo Two things:

1. Of course, the bare, technical meaning (to the extent that there's such a thing) of "comptes sociaux" is "company accounts". However, *in practice* (which is what really matters), when used in specific accounting context, "comptes sociaux" tends to pretty much always refer to the financial statements of the parent company of a group, rather than those of the consolidated group itself. That's why it's used – to make the distinction between the two. (I've often seen it translated as "annual financial statements" or "individual financial statements", neither of which does the job for me, precisely because they fail to do the job that "sociaux" is doing in the French, which is to draw a distinction between the parent company and the consolidated group of which it's the head.

So no, deferred taxes and timing differences are, of course, not "some kind of feature specific to groups of companies". I never suggested they were. But in this particular case, I'm struggling to see what else "sociaux" is doing there other than specifying that this information relates to the (parent) company on its own, as opposed to the group of which it is the consolidating entity.
Daryo Apr 13, 2020:
Although there is a mention of of a "group" [as in "Constitution du groupe"] all that follows

Variation
Compensation IDA/IDP
Allocation PPA
Change
Décembre 2019
Impôts différés actifs
Décalages temporaires sociaux

applies perfectly well to ANY company - be it a stand-alone one of a company that part of some group / family of companies, so as far as I can see making "Impôts différés actifs / Décalages temporaires sociaux" some kind of feature specific to groups of companies is a BIG FAT RED HERRING. // Anyway whatever some glossary has to say "comptes sociaux" simply means "company's (annual) accounts" nothing more specific

http://www.focusifrs.com/menu_gauche/normes_et_interpretatio...

http://centre-de-formation-financiere.over-blog.com/article-...

http://ressources.aunege.fr/nuxeo/site/esupversions/893f7469...

http://www.cetice.universite-paris-saclay.fr/aunege/ifrs/co/...
Rob Grayson Apr 12, 2020:
@ph-b "Sociaux" does indeed refer to "individual company", as opposed to "consolidated". However, since in practice we are talking about the individual accounts of the consolidating entity, "parent company" is more meaningful and much clearer in context.
ph-b (X) Apr 12, 2020:
About "sociaux" comptes sociaux translates as "individual accounts" (GB) according to Ménard. Comptes sociaux de la mère would be "parent company financial statements" according to the same source, in other words, sociaux seems to mean "individual" in this context. I realise sociaux refers to décalages in the question, but just wondered whether this meaning might be helpful here.

Proposed translations

+1
15 hrs
Selected

(parent company) timing differences

The only reason my confidence level is "High" rather than "Highest - I am sure" is the inclusion of "sociaux".

"Différences temporaires" are "timing differences", of that there is no doubt. I can only imagine that "sociaux" refers to the fact that these differences arise at the parent company (i.e. consolidating entity) level. In practice, as a quick Google search will tell you, the combination "décalages temporaires sociaux" hardly ever occurs, and I'm inclined to suggest that "parent company" is really a bit redundant.
Peer comment(s):
agree writeaway : clear explanation
1 hr
disagree Francois Boye : not quite! https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...
17 hrs
This is a red herring: "décalages temporarires" has nothing at all to do with temporary delays in the tax collection process.
neutral Daryo : "differences in timing" YES but as far as I can see it's IN NO WAY about some inter-group structure // all I could find is the "difference in timing" between the period when the activity occurred and the period when it gets taxed, nothing more.
17 hrs
In IFRS it's a timing difference, not a "difference in timing". "Sociaux" is curious; see my discussion entries.
agree Rachel Fell
1 day 3 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-2
6 mins

Temporary (short-term) corporate disparities

or "short-term discrepancies"
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : a company proudly showing "disparities" or "discrepancies" in their annual accounts wouldn't last very long. and the licence of their accountant would go quickly in smoke// A bit of reality check first?
2 hrs
In the sense that these are not yet reconciled on the books?
disagree Rob Grayson : Dead wrong. Guesswork doesn't cut it in finance and accounting.
14 hrs
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-3
5 hrs

temporary social gaps/inequalities

Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : Have you read the "Reference comments" section? - would've given some starting ideas about what exactly are these "décalages" ...
7 mins
disagree Thomas Miles : Anything with 'social' is most likely a guess.
4 hrs
disagree Rob Grayson : Dead wrong. Guesswork doesn't cut it in finance and accounting.
9 hrs
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6 hrs

timing differences by (group) company

- sociaux is the descriptor that is new to me: Daryö's ref. suggests a time lag within the group companies *Constitution du groupe* - rather than within a partnership (of individuals and companies) - for the deferred taxes or (capital gains taxes) hold-overs.
Example sentence:

timing differences definition. Temporary differences between the reporting of a revenue or expense for financial statements (books) and the reporting of the item for *income tax purposes*.

Reference:

http://iate.europa.eu/search/standard/result/1586651402005/1

http://www.accountingcoach.com/terms/T/timing-differences

Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : This doesn't quite work, but "group company timing differences" does. You could also say "intra-group".
17 hrs
Thanks. You#ve hit the nail on the head. My 'sociaux' quandary was exactly that: intra-group vs. inter-company....
neutral Daryo : the ref. I found is about differences between the period when results are obtained and periods when they taxed -[i.e Décalages temporaires = shift in time] no mention there of any "group structure" whatsoever.
1 day 1 hr
Your ref. still supports my answer and, for want of a plausible explanation for the weasel-word of 'sociaux', group structure has been implied, namely intra-group or inter-company vs. employment-, industrial or welfare-related.
disagree Francois Boye : https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...
1 day 2 hrs
Good try on an Easter Sunday to Monday with a very narrow ref,!
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-1
6 hrs

Provisional corporate offsets

For me the French decalage denotes a shifting of amounts in order to reconcile accounts and may refer to a fictitious entry.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Rob Grayson : This is one that you either know or you don't. Guesses don't cut it.
7 hrs
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2 days 19 hrs

The parent company's temporary lags/gaps (between its net incomes and its taxable incomes)

Please read the first bullet of this excerpt to have a clearcut definition of 'Décalages temporaires'.



L’impôt différé

L'impôt différé permet de constater un impôt correspondant au résultat économique de l'exercice au titre des opérations de l'entreprise qui sont amenés à générer dans le futur un impôt ou une économie d'impôt non reconnu par la méthode de l'impôt exigible.Des impôts différés sont ainsi calculés sur :

*Les décalages temporaires entre le résultat comptable et le résultat fiscal.

Exemple : constatation d'un impôt différé sur la provision pour risque de 2.000 pour tenir compte de l'économie d'impôt qui sera générée lors de la reprise de la provision.

*Les écritures enregistrées uniquement dans les comptes consolidés ou le reporting (retraitements de consolidation, éliminations d'opérations internes).

Exemple : une provision pour indemnités de départ en retraite est enregistrée dans les comptes consolidés pour 1.200. Cette écriture donne lieu dans les comptes consolidés à constatation d'un impôt différé correspondant à l'économie future d'impôt qui sera réalisée lorsque les indemnitésde départ en retraite seront versées.

*Les pertes fiscales reportables.

Dans les comptes individuels, les pertes fiscales subies au cours d'un exercice sont renseignées dans le tableau 2058-B de la liasse fiscale mais ne font l'objet d'aucune constatation d'économie future d'impôt.
En revanche, dans les comptes consolidés, sous réserve de pouvoir justifier de leur imputation sur des bénéfices futurs, les déficits reportables donnent lieu à constatation d'un impôt différé correspondant à l'économie future.

Exemple : l'exercice N se solde par une perte fiscale de 30.000.
Dans la mesure où cette perte provient d'éléments non récurrents et que les exercices ultérieurs devraient être bénéficiaires compte tenu d'un taux d'impôt de 33.33%, un impôt différé de 10.000 est constaté dans les comptes consolidés.

*Les différences entre valeur comptable d'un actif ou d'un passif et la valeur qui lui est attribuée par l'administration fiscale.

Exemple : suite à l'acquisition de la société S, le bilan consolidé du groupe G comprend un actif dont la juste valeur est de 5.000 tandis que sa valeur dans les comptes individuels de S s'élève à 3.200.
Fiscalement cet écart de 1.800 ne sera jamais déductible soit sous forme d'amortissement soit lors de la cession de l'actif, ce qui implique de constater un impôt différé passif de 1.800 x 33.33% = 600 dans les comptes consolidés.

Cette liste n’est pas exhaustive mais énumère les cas les plus couramment rencontrés.

Source: https://entrepreneurs.pwc.fr/fr/nos-expertises/consolidation...
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Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

Impôts différés // décalages temporaires

Impôts différés : Décalages temporaires

Principes

Dans les comptes sociaux, l’impôt comptabilisé correspond à l’impôt exigible, c’est à dire à l’impôt dû ou à recevoir et dont le règlement n’est pas subordonné à la réalisation d’opérations futures. Cependant, les opérations réalisées par l’entreprise peuvent avoir des conséquences fiscales positives ou négatives autres que celles prises en considération pour le calcul de l’impôt exigible. Il en est par exemple ainsi pour des opérations réalisées au cours d’un exercice mais qui ne sont imposables ou déductibles qu’au titre d’un exercice ultérieur. Dans les comptes consolidés, et dans un souci de rattachement de l’impôt au même exercice que les charges et produits qui y sont liés, il convient de calculer un impôt différé sur ces décalages temporaires. Il convient de noter que les charges définitivement non déductibles ou les produits non taxables (différences permanentes) ne donnent jamais lieu à la constatation d’un impôt →


https://www.conso-online.com/principes-consolidation/bases-c...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Francois Boye : https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...
1 day 6 hrs
why would you go looking for "self-employed" people when this is obviously NOT about them ??? + IRS is hardly of ANY relevance in FRANCE
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