| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | EU residence permits to be abolished in Germany 投稿者: RobinB
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| I just saw this post | Oct 7, 2004 |
Thank heavens for that! They finally realise that even the Beamten have better things to do than wind themselves up over EU citizens. But hey, I need chapter and verse! So where is this stuff written down? I don't have the confidence that my Auslaenderamt will know the rules.
Thanks
Gillian
| | | | | Standing aside, we Indians are happy that we do not have such hassles | Oct 7, 2004 |
Surprise! I do not even have passport. In our place we get it only for the purpose of going abroad and I never intend to do that. ID's, what are they? Of late in banks if I want to open an account I require a proof of residence. The good old ration card will do the trick and I do not have even that. My tax ID is there but it shows a Delhi address, whereas since July 2001 I am in Madras. I gave the bank a copy of my telephone bill sent to my address and that was that. Credit cards are of course t... See more Surprise! I do not even have passport. In our place we get it only for the purpose of going abroad and I never intend to do that. ID's, what are they? Of late in banks if I want to open an account I require a proof of residence. The good old ration card will do the trick and I do not have even that. My tax ID is there but it shows a Delhi address, whereas since July 2001 I am in Madras. I gave the bank a copy of my telephone bill sent to my address and that was that. Credit cards are of course there but I don't have them either. My bank manager is hoarse trying to persuade me to go in for an ATM (automatic teller machine) card but yours truly has resisted even that. In short I have been resisting my digitisation at the hands of the authorities. Touch wood I hope to potter around in the same manner in future too.
Way back in 1976 my French professor told us that in France one has to always carry some minimum amount of money and the police can always check one on that account. Is it still so in France or was the prof pulling our leg?
Regards,
N.Raghavan ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marc P (X) 
Local time: 16:11
ドイツ語 から 英語
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| EU residence permits to be abolished in Germany | Oct 7, 2004 |
Sarah Downing wrote:
Some posters mentioned something about plastic ID cards. Are there any plans in doing this in Germany for non-Germans?
I don't think that's any more likely than Germany issuing passports to non-nationals. It would amount to the same thing.
I mean - I refuse to carry around my passport - It's just bloody unreasonable and if they want some form of ID and refuse to issue ID cards, then they'll have to make do with my driving licence.
I used my residence permit as an ID for 11 years. I never had any problems with the authorities as a result, but perhaps I was just lucky. The real problems with that, and this also applies to the driving licence, arose with non-officials who wanted a proof of address, which isn't on either the residence permit or the driving licence. The car registration papers (which you have to have with you when you drive) solved that.
The only way I have found to deal with obstructive German officials is to know the legislation yourself and make it obvious that you do. Otherwise, some of them simply make up the rules as they go along, as happened when I applied for both a German driving licence and for naturalization.
Coming back to carrying ID: this interested me at one point and I looked into it, but I was unable to find any legislation that actually requires you to *carry* an ID card or passport at all times, only to *possess* one (even if you leave it at home). If someone has a reference to the particular legislation, I'd be interested to hear it.
Marc
| | | | RobinB
米国
Local time: 09:11
ドイツ語 から 英語
TOPIC STARTER | EU and Turkey | Oct 7, 2004 |
Tayfun,
You're probably aware of the fuss particularly here in Germany about EU membership negotiations with Turkey. All this crap about defending the "occidental culture" (abendländische Kultur) against the barbarians at the gates, and the attempts to treat the EU as a latter-day Holy Roman Empire.
At least the German Immigration Act (the first ever!) regulates issues such as how and when family members of non-EU residents can move to Germany, and overall it's a step ... See more Tayfun,
You're probably aware of the fuss particularly here in Germany about EU membership negotiations with Turkey. All this crap about defending the "occidental culture" (abendländische Kultur) against the barbarians at the gates, and the attempts to treat the EU as a latter-day Holy Roman Empire.
At least the German Immigration Act (the first ever!) regulates issues such as how and when family members of non-EU residents can move to Germany, and overall it's a step in the right direction, albeit 50 years too late. But the whole thing is deeply offensive to the Catholic Right, which sees Germany as the guardian of "Christian values", and many sensible proposals were watered down.
Nothing moves fast here (except unemployment rates).
Robin ▲ Collapse
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RobinB
米国
Local time: 09:11
ドイツ語 から 英語
TOPIC STARTER
Narasimhan,
I understand that you don't need a passport to travel around India, which is after all a very large country. It's a bit like those Murricans, I suppose, who've never been outside their home state (even if that's Rhode Island).
What's surprising is that as a translator, you don't evidently don't travel regularly to the country/countries of your source language(s). I appreciate that there's a financial commitment involved there, but surely you've been to Germa... See more Narasimhan,
I understand that you don't need a passport to travel around India, which is after all a very large country. It's a bit like those Murricans, I suppose, who've never been outside their home state (even if that's Rhode Island).
What's surprising is that as a translator, you don't evidently don't travel regularly to the country/countries of your source language(s). I appreciate that there's a financial commitment involved there, but surely you've been to Germany, France and Italy (according to your profile)? After all, it's standard practice for translators to have spent some time in the SL countries, and normally a period of residence there is now regarded as an important element of a translator's education.
Way back in 1976 my French professor told us that in France one has to always carry some minimum amount of money and the police can always check one on that account. Is it still so in France or was the prof pulling our leg?
Dunno, maybe one of our French colleagues can answer that. But I'm sure it wasn't the case the first time I went to France back in, I think, 1972.
Robin ▲ Collapse
| | | | RobinB
米国
Local time: 09:11
ドイツ語 から 英語
TOPIC STARTER | Carrying passports | Oct 7, 2004 |
MarcPrior wrote:
Coming back to carrying ID: this interested me at one point and I looked into it, but I was unable to find any legislation that actually requires you to *carry* an ID card or passport at all times, only to *possess* one (even if you leave it at home). If someone has a reference to the particular legislation, I'd be interested to hear it.
Marc, I think you're right, and the following section of the relevant legislation (Freizügigkeitsgesetz/EU) would tend to back you up here:
§ 8
Ausweispflicht
Unionsbürger und ihre Familienangehörigen sind verpflichtet,
1. bei der Einreise in das Bundesgebiet einen Pass oder anerkannten Passersatz
a) mit sich zu führen und
b) einem zuständigen Beamten auf Verlangen zur Prüfung auszuhändigen,
2. für die Dauer des Aufenthalts im Bundesgebiet den erforderlichen Pass oder Passersatz zu besitzen,
3. den Pass oder Passersatz sowie die Bescheinigung über das gemeinschaftsrechtliche Aufenthaltsrecht
und die Aufenthaltserlaubnis-EU den mit der Ausführung dieses Gesetzes betrauten Behörden vorzulegen, auszuhändigen und vorübergehend zu überlassen, soweit dies zur Durchführung oder Sicherung von Maßnahmen nach diesem Gesetz erforderlich ist.
However, that doesn't mean there aren't other laws or regulations that contradict the above. So even if we don't carry our passport around with us, maybe we should start carrying a copy of the law!
Robin
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[quote]MarcPrior wrote:
I don't think that's any more likely than Germany issuing passports to non-nationals. It would amount to the same thing.
But there wouldn't be any difference in the administration involved, would there? Up until now they've had to spend time and money issuing us those tatty residence permits (which I, by the way, also always have with me as ID). And you could just write "Ausländerin" or "Britin" or whatever on the ID card. Though I would love to have an ID card with the word "alien" on it...
I can't see the problem.
MW
| | | | rstocks
Local time: 16:11
ドイツ語 から 英語
| We don't have to carry ID at all times | Oct 7, 2004 |
RobinB wrote:
According to the Zuwanderungsgesetz, specifically the Gesetz über die allgemeine Freizügigkeit von Unionsbürgern (which is Article 2 of the Zuwanderungsgesetz - a typical example of nested German legislation), we're still supposed to carry our passports or national ID cards with us at all times.
Actually it only says you have to *own* a passport (Ausländer dürfen nur in das Bundesgebiet einreisen oder sich darin aufhalten, wenn sie einen anerkannten und gültigen Pass oder Passersatz *besitzen* - § 3 AufenthaltG).
You have to have it with you when you cross the border (§ 13), and you have to take it to show the authorities on request (vorzulegen, auszuhändigen und vorübergehend zu überlassen - § 48), but you don't have to carry it with you everywhere you go.
Robin
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Now I have chapter and verse:
Aufenthaltsgesetz 1 (2) 1.
and
Freizuegigkeitsgesetz/EU 2 7 (4).
And I'm going to leave my passport at home from now on
Thanks everybody
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 16:11
ドイツ語 から 英語
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| EU residence permits to be abolished in Germany | Oct 7, 2004 |
MW wrote:
But there wouldn't be any difference in the administration involved, would there?
No; but the issuing of identity documents by a country to citizens of another country doubtless has certain legal ramifications. Germany has nothing to gain by issuing ID cards to the citizens of a country that refuses to do itself, and might even find itself in contravention of international law.
Up until now they've had to spend time and money issuing us those tatty residence permits
They could, of course, have issued residence permits in credit-card style form. But they would not have been "ID cards".
Marc
| | | | | Passport Shmassport! | Oct 7, 2004 |
[quote]MarcPrior wrote:
They could, of course, have issued residence permits in credit-card style form. But they would not have been "ID cards".
I always wondered why they didn't do this anyway - they harked on and on about having to carry around ID with you other than driving licence and then they give you a crappy bit of green card - Mine got ripped in my purse and looks pretty tatty to say the least, so on presenting it on my last trip to England they took a rather long time to let me through ...:-)) Reminds me of the comment someone made about their "toxic waste" pink slip driving licence.
For obvious reasons, I won't be carrying around my passport anyway and the argument of passport over driving licence because of address doesn't ring true either, because I just checked my British passport - the only addresses it has is the one of people to contact in emergencies and my place of birth. I hate these bullying officials and it does worry me that they might still try to penalise you if they catch you without passport - As German legislation and that of many other EU countries has shown, they often neither give a shit nor are they particularly aware of EU legislation.
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 16:11
ドイツ語 から 英語
+ ...
| EU residence permits to be abolished in Germany | Oct 7, 2004 |
Sarah Downing wrote:
... they harked on and on about having to carry around ID with you other than driving licence
But do you? Is there really a law requiring this, and if so, what law? Or is it just a misconception among the German public, kept alive by a small minority of police officers?
Marc
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| You're right, but they unfortunately might not see it that way | Oct 7, 2004 |
MarcPrior wrote: Sarah Downing wrote:
... they harked on and on about having to carry around ID with you other than driving licence But do you? Is there really a law requiring this, and if so, what law? Or is it just a misconception among the German public, kept alive by a small minority of police officers? Marc
I think you're probably right, but this doesn't stop the bastards insisting that they are and deciding to act like bullies - I've experienced this myself and it wasn't very nice. I wish they'd incarcerate such people because they shouldn't be allowed to treat people this way, but then that's probably never going to change either.
| | | | | See the Good with the Bad | Oct 7, 2004 |
Tayfun Torunoglu wrote:
It informed Proz.com community on a subject of interest,
opinions exchanged,
perhaps it is better not to further discuss governmental issues or avoid critics directed at Countries,which is in fact contraversial and should be avoided.
That was what I ment by "let us welcome.." above.
And perhaps it's better not to go through the world with rose-tinted glasses. I admit that my post was a bit firey, but then discrimination makes me angry, as it does many others.
According to the kudoz rules, we're not allowed to get personal, but in this case I wasn't being personal and was talking about a general situation without mentioning any names. As for particular aim - If you see it that way, it served its particular aim with the first posting because it informed people of this legislative change. However, it would be a shame if the forum had stopped at that, as many people subsequently made some (in my opinion) relevant and amusing postings.
Please let me know when proz announces a legislation against freedom of speech, because I'm sure I will be the first to leave ...
[Edited at 2004-10-07 13:13]
| | | | | Reply To Tayfun | Oct 7, 2004 |
Tayfun Torunoglu wrote: are welcomed, I mean not really as this but we may think our opinion relevant, serious and other\'s irrelevant, amusing and therefore they are welcomed as a respect for different opinions. It was not aimed you I thought thread was evolving in other directions than the lines drawn by Proz.com rules, need not much trespass yet but given the above points we are walking on the borders We can not solve every problem here there may be other platforms for this purpose.
Hi Tayfun,
Sorry if I overreacted. I thought I was being admonished, but apparently not. To be quite honest, I\'m not really sure how we\'re walking \"on the borders\" (because of not keeping to the topic?), but overall I am glad that the permit is being abolished.
Sarah
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