This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Oct 21, 2021 08:39
2 yrs ago
21 viewers *
English term
vast flights of purple oratory
English to French
Art/Literary
Law (general)
History of american law
"Everybody loves a mystery; everybody loves a courtroom drama. The great cases were also the ones in which all the stops were pulled out: juries were carefully and laboriously chosen; trials were long and crammed with detail; both sides marshaled evidence, introduced experts, battled and sparred on cross-‐examination; and due process was meticulously observed. These trials were replete with sensational events, witnesses who wept or fainted, grisly evidence and exhibits, and vast flights of purple oratory. They served, perhaps, important functions. They were "propaganda plays of morality, cautionary tales." They were also the vehicle for teaching the public about law. But the public learned a curious, double message. They learned that America was scrupulous about the rights of people accused of crime. They saw careful meticulous justice; but they also saw justice as a ham, mountebank, a fool.”
Extrait d'un livre au sujet de l'histoire du Droit Américain.
L'auteur est mondialement connu et enseigne à Stanford , entre autres.
j'ai effectué diverses recherches car la présence du terme "purple" qui n'a aucune corrélation directe avec l'univers des procès aux USA, mais immédiatement fait penser à la symbolique franc-maçonne, qui est un des fondements du droit américain.
». Dans ce lien : http://massonicanova.blogspot.com/2017/06/la-symbolique-chretienne-des-couleurs.html , on peut lire « Dans la liturgie catholique, les ornements violets sont réservés aux temps préparatoires aux grandes fêtes : dimanches de l'Avent pour préparer Noël 2, du Carême et de la Passion, qui précèdent Pâques. Pendant longtemps, dans les églises, une coutume consistait à voiler les crucifix avec une étole violette durant la Semaine Sainte. Le violet est également la couleur des vêtements du célébrant pour les messes votives de supplication ou de pénitence : messes pour les malades, pour la paix, 3 etc. La succession des ornements violets et des ornements blancs marque le passage de la préparation, où l'âme est en état d'austérité, d'humilité et de pénitence, à l'exultation de la fête 4. On voit donc que le violet ne saurait être réduit à la seule signification de demi-deuil et de tristesse qui est la sienne dans la mentalité populaire. Le violet est en somme la couleur de la vigile, dans tous les sens du mot : veille d'un jour de fête, action de veiller en priant et vigilance, c'est-à-dire attention portée à la parole de Dieu. ». N’oublions que lors d’un procès au Etats Unis on jure sur la Bible. En creusant encore plus profondément sur les franc maçons, la couleur violette, les 2tats Unis , les pères fondateurs , j’ai découvert cet article https://denisegraveline.org/2016/06/famous-speech-friday-empress-theodoras.html
puis
https://histoiresroyales.fr/histoire-imperatrice-theodora-byzance-cirque/
Je suis donc convaincue que l'auteur fait référence aux envollées lyriques de l'impératrice Theodora de Byzance.
Mais je n'ai aucune idée de la façon dont je vais pouvoir formuler cela.
Extrait d'un livre au sujet de l'histoire du Droit Américain.
L'auteur est mondialement connu et enseigne à Stanford , entre autres.
j'ai effectué diverses recherches car la présence du terme "purple" qui n'a aucune corrélation directe avec l'univers des procès aux USA, mais immédiatement fait penser à la symbolique franc-maçonne, qui est un des fondements du droit américain.
». Dans ce lien : http://massonicanova.blogspot.com/2017/06/la-symbolique-chretienne-des-couleurs.html , on peut lire « Dans la liturgie catholique, les ornements violets sont réservés aux temps préparatoires aux grandes fêtes : dimanches de l'Avent pour préparer Noël 2, du Carême et de la Passion, qui précèdent Pâques. Pendant longtemps, dans les églises, une coutume consistait à voiler les crucifix avec une étole violette durant la Semaine Sainte. Le violet est également la couleur des vêtements du célébrant pour les messes votives de supplication ou de pénitence : messes pour les malades, pour la paix, 3 etc. La succession des ornements violets et des ornements blancs marque le passage de la préparation, où l'âme est en état d'austérité, d'humilité et de pénitence, à l'exultation de la fête 4. On voit donc que le violet ne saurait être réduit à la seule signification de demi-deuil et de tristesse qui est la sienne dans la mentalité populaire. Le violet est en somme la couleur de la vigile, dans tous les sens du mot : veille d'un jour de fête, action de veiller en priant et vigilance, c'est-à-dire attention portée à la parole de Dieu. ». N’oublions que lors d’un procès au Etats Unis on jure sur la Bible. En creusant encore plus profondément sur les franc maçons, la couleur violette, les 2tats Unis , les pères fondateurs , j’ai découvert cet article https://denisegraveline.org/2016/06/famous-speech-friday-empress-theodoras.html
puis
https://histoiresroyales.fr/histoire-imperatrice-theodora-byzance-cirque/
Je suis donc convaincue que l'auteur fait référence aux envollées lyriques de l'impératrice Theodora de Byzance.
Mais je n'ai aucune idée de la façon dont je vais pouvoir formuler cela.
Proposed translations
(French)
3 | grandioses envolées impériales | AllegroTrans |
3 -1 | grandioses envolées lyriques/envolées magistériales | AllegroTrans |
References
Definition | AllegroTrans |
Proposed translations
-1
2 hrs
grandioses envolées lyriques/envolées magistériales
Je ne crois pas que la notion de "pourpre" se rend bien en francais
[...] between, on the one hand, the
Commission's lyrical flights of oratory as regards the most competitive European economy,
[...]
europarl.europa.eu
Pour le reste, j'observe un profond décalage entre, d'une part,
les envolées lyriques de la Commission sur l'économie européenne la plus compétitive,
[...]
europarl.europa.eu
[...] that, for a young 29 year old
from Shawinigan, Mr. Diefenbaker's flights of oratory in this House were quite impressive.
www2.parl.gc.ca
[...] que, pour le jeune
débutant âgé de 29 ans qui arrivait de Shawinigan, les grandes envolées de Diefenbaker en Chambre ont été une expérience mar
www2.parl.gc.ca
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2021-10-21 11:28:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
envolées de lyrique impériale
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 9 hrs (2021-10-22 18:08:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Citations contenant le mot « magistériel »
Alors que le synode sur ‘les jeunes, la foi et le discernement vocationnel’ touche à sa fin, les Pères synodaux seront appelés à voter pour approuver le document final le 27 octobre. Nouveauté de ce synode: le document des Pères synodaux pourrait revêtir un caractère magistériel, si le pape le décide.
cath.ch, Synode: le document final ne doit pas avoir un caractère magistériel – Portail catholique suisse
[...] between, on the one hand, the
Commission's lyrical flights of oratory as regards the most competitive European economy,
[...]
europarl.europa.eu
Pour le reste, j'observe un profond décalage entre, d'une part,
les envolées lyriques de la Commission sur l'économie européenne la plus compétitive,
[...]
europarl.europa.eu
[...] that, for a young 29 year old
from Shawinigan, Mr. Diefenbaker's flights of oratory in this House were quite impressive.
www2.parl.gc.ca
[...] que, pour le jeune
débutant âgé de 29 ans qui arrivait de Shawinigan, les grandes envolées de Diefenbaker en Chambre ont été une expérience mar
www2.parl.gc.ca
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2021-10-21 11:28:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
envolées de lyrique impériale
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 9 hrs (2021-10-22 18:08:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Citations contenant le mot « magistériel »
Alors que le synode sur ‘les jeunes, la foi et le discernement vocationnel’ touche à sa fin, les Pères synodaux seront appelés à voter pour approuver le document final le 27 octobre. Nouveauté de ce synode: le document des Pères synodaux pourrait revêtir un caractère magistériel, si le pape le décide.
cath.ch, Synode: le document final ne doit pas avoir un caractère magistériel – Portail catholique suisse
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Emmanuella
: Magistériales ?
3 hrs
|
disagree |
Germaine
: "lyrique" ne s'applique pas au contexte et il semble que l'adjectif pour "magistère" serait plutôt "magistral".
6 hrs
|
2 days 9 hrs
grandioses envolées impériales
Une autre idée
As for a connection with freemasonry, I don't think "purple" denotes that or that the vast majority of people who understand the term "purple oratory" will have any idea at all where the "purple" notion originates from. Indeed it would seem that it is derived from a reference by the Roman poet Horace. and not from freemasonry.
As for a connection with freemasonry, I don't think "purple" denotes that or that the vast majority of people who understand the term "purple oratory" will have any idea at all where the "purple" notion originates from. Indeed it would seem that it is derived from a reference by the Roman poet Horace. and not from freemasonry.
Reference comments
14 mins
Reference:
Definition
By Richard Nordquist
Updated March 03, 2019
A generally pejorative term for writing or speech characterized by ornate, flowery, or hyperbolic language is known as purple prose. Contrast it with plain style.
"The double meaning of the term purple is useful," says Stephen H. Webb. "[I]t is both imperial and regal, demanding attention, and overly ornate, ostentatious, even marked by profanity" (Blessed Excess, 1993).
Bryan Garner notes that purple prose "derives from the Latin phrase purpureus pannus, which appears in the Ars Poetica of Horace (65-68 B.C.)" (Garner's Modern American Usage, 2009).
Examples and Observations:
"Once in the hands of Duncan Nicol it was translated, as by consecration in the name of a divinity more benevolent than all others, into pisco punch, the wonder and glory of San Francisco’s heady youth, the balm and solace of fevered generations, a drink so endearing and inspired that although its prototype has vanished, its legend lingers on, one with the Grail, the unicorn, and the music of the spheres.”
(Columnist Lucius Beebe, Gourmet magazine, 1957; quoted by M. Carrie Allan in "Spirits: Pisco Punch, a San Francisco Classic Cocktail With Official Aspirations." The Washington Post, October 3, 2014)
"Outside pockets of euphoria in Burnley, Hull and Sunderland, fans have been wallowing in liquor-soaked self-pity as the chill hand of failure gripped them by the neck and flung them mercilessly onto the scrap heap of broken dreams. (Please forgive my purple prose here: as a red of the Stretford variety I am perhaps inappropriately using this week's digest as catharsis, but I'll move on, I promise.)"
(Mark Smith, "The Northerner: United in Grief." The Guardian, May 28, 2009)
"Uncle Tom's Cabin suffers from padding (what the French call remplissage), from improbable plot contrivances, mawkish sentimentality, unevenness in prose quality, and 'purple prose'--sentences like, 'Even so, beloved Eva! fair star of thy dwelling! Thou art passing away; but they that love thee dearest know it not.'"
(Charles Johnson, "Ethics and Literature." Ethics, Literature, and Theory: An Introductory Reader, 2nd ed., edited by Stephen K. George. Rowman & Littlefield, 2005)
Characteristics of Purple Prose
"The culprits of purple prose are usually modifiers that make your writing wordy, overwrought, distracting, and even silly. . . .
"In purple prose, skin is always creamy, eyelashes always glistening, heroes always brooding, and sunrises always magical. Purple prose also features an abundance of metaphors and figurative language, long sentences, and abstractions."
(Jessica Page Morrell, Between the Lines. Writer's Digest Books, 2006)
The term purple prose is derived from a reference by the Roman poet Horace[3][4] (Quintus Horatius Flaccus, 65–8 BC) who wrote in his Ars Poetica (lines 14–21):[5]
Inceptis grauibus plerumque et magna professis
purpureus, late qui splendeat, unus et alter
adsuitur pannus, cum lucus et ara Dianae
et properantis aquae per amoenos ambitus agros
aut flumen Rhenum aut pluuius describitur arcus;
sed nunc non erat his locus. Et fortasse cupressum
scis simulare; quid hoc, si fractis enatat exspes
nauibus, aere dato qui pingitur?
Weighty openings and grand declarations often
Have one or two purple patches tacked on, that gleam
Far and wide, when Diana's grove and her altar,
The winding stream hastening through lovely fields,
Or the river Rhine, or the rainbow’s being described.
There’s no place for them here. Perhaps you know how
To draw a cypress tree: so what, if you’ve been given
Money to paint a sailor plunging from a shipwreck
In despair?[6][7]
(from Wikipedia)
Updated March 03, 2019
A generally pejorative term for writing or speech characterized by ornate, flowery, or hyperbolic language is known as purple prose. Contrast it with plain style.
"The double meaning of the term purple is useful," says Stephen H. Webb. "[I]t is both imperial and regal, demanding attention, and overly ornate, ostentatious, even marked by profanity" (Blessed Excess, 1993).
Bryan Garner notes that purple prose "derives from the Latin phrase purpureus pannus, which appears in the Ars Poetica of Horace (65-68 B.C.)" (Garner's Modern American Usage, 2009).
Examples and Observations:
"Once in the hands of Duncan Nicol it was translated, as by consecration in the name of a divinity more benevolent than all others, into pisco punch, the wonder and glory of San Francisco’s heady youth, the balm and solace of fevered generations, a drink so endearing and inspired that although its prototype has vanished, its legend lingers on, one with the Grail, the unicorn, and the music of the spheres.”
(Columnist Lucius Beebe, Gourmet magazine, 1957; quoted by M. Carrie Allan in "Spirits: Pisco Punch, a San Francisco Classic Cocktail With Official Aspirations." The Washington Post, October 3, 2014)
"Outside pockets of euphoria in Burnley, Hull and Sunderland, fans have been wallowing in liquor-soaked self-pity as the chill hand of failure gripped them by the neck and flung them mercilessly onto the scrap heap of broken dreams. (Please forgive my purple prose here: as a red of the Stretford variety I am perhaps inappropriately using this week's digest as catharsis, but I'll move on, I promise.)"
(Mark Smith, "The Northerner: United in Grief." The Guardian, May 28, 2009)
"Uncle Tom's Cabin suffers from padding (what the French call remplissage), from improbable plot contrivances, mawkish sentimentality, unevenness in prose quality, and 'purple prose'--sentences like, 'Even so, beloved Eva! fair star of thy dwelling! Thou art passing away; but they that love thee dearest know it not.'"
(Charles Johnson, "Ethics and Literature." Ethics, Literature, and Theory: An Introductory Reader, 2nd ed., edited by Stephen K. George. Rowman & Littlefield, 2005)
Characteristics of Purple Prose
"The culprits of purple prose are usually modifiers that make your writing wordy, overwrought, distracting, and even silly. . . .
"In purple prose, skin is always creamy, eyelashes always glistening, heroes always brooding, and sunrises always magical. Purple prose also features an abundance of metaphors and figurative language, long sentences, and abstractions."
(Jessica Page Morrell, Between the Lines. Writer's Digest Books, 2006)
The term purple prose is derived from a reference by the Roman poet Horace[3][4] (Quintus Horatius Flaccus, 65–8 BC) who wrote in his Ars Poetica (lines 14–21):[5]
Inceptis grauibus plerumque et magna professis
purpureus, late qui splendeat, unus et alter
adsuitur pannus, cum lucus et ara Dianae
et properantis aquae per amoenos ambitus agros
aut flumen Rhenum aut pluuius describitur arcus;
sed nunc non erat his locus. Et fortasse cupressum
scis simulare; quid hoc, si fractis enatat exspes
nauibus, aere dato qui pingitur?
Weighty openings and grand declarations often
Have one or two purple patches tacked on, that gleam
Far and wide, when Diana's grove and her altar,
The winding stream hastening through lovely fields,
Or the river Rhine, or the rainbow’s being described.
There’s no place for them here. Perhaps you know how
To draw a cypress tree: so what, if you’ve been given
Money to paint a sailor plunging from a shipwreck
In despair?[6][7]
(from Wikipedia)
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Germaine
: C'est là que le sens "imperial and regal" rejoint l'impératrice et de là, le pompeux/emphatique.
9 hrs
|
Discussion
"Interminable" has negative connotations, so it doesn't work here, for me.
I like AllegroTrans' "grandioses," because it captures both the "vastness" and the "purpleness" (overly dramatic, baroque, etc.).
"...the expression “purple prose,” meaning ornate or fussy language, first showed up in the early 20th century, according to citations in the Oxford English Dictionary....
That usage evolved from the older “purple passage” (1882), which evolved from the even older “purple patch” (early 1700s), which evolved from the much, much older Latin phrase purpureus pannus (purple garment, circa 18 BC) in Horace’s Ars Poetica (The Art of Poetry)." https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/04/purple.html
What do all those expressions have in common? Alliteration: both words start with P. That makes it easy to remember and fun to say, and the term references a dramatic, unusual color. That's about all that any of us are generally thinking of when purple prose/purple [language] comes up.
"The double meaning of the term purple is useful," says Stephen H. Webb. "[I]t is both imperial and regal, demanding attention, and overly ornate, ostentatious, even marked by profanity" (Blessed Excess, 1993). Bryan Garner notes that purple prose "derives from the Latin phrase purpureus pannus, which appears in the Ars Poetica of Horace (65-68 B.C.)" (Garner's Modern American Usage, 2009).
https://www.thoughtco.com/purple-prose-1691705
“…en longues envolées déclamatoires” = en longs discours emphatiques et pompeux.
(À ne pas confondre avec l’envolée lyrique – genre poétique, dans des formes rythmiques permettant le chant ou la déclamation avec accompagnement musical.)