Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

von Gnade

English translation:

by grace and favour of

Added to glossary by Ramey Rieger (X)
Jun 11, 2014 08:52
9 yrs ago
German term

von Gnade

German to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature idiom
Greetings dear Colleagues!
Normally I would translate 'von Gnade' in this context with ' by the grace of'. What irritates me though, is the ensuing sentence, where the father has also paid for his studies. Then I considered 'at the mercy of', but further along one can see that Brian doesn't work with his father, so cannot be 'at his mercy' in this sense. (See second excerpt)

So, dear German native speakers or those close enough - Am I dealing with a redundancy here or does the idiom have a meaning I am not yet aware of? I would be, as ever, grateful for your input!

Here is the context:
Überhaupt geschah so manches in seinem Leben nur, weil sein Vater es wollte. Anwalt von Daddys Gnaden zu sein, war etwas, das er tapfer ertragen hätte. Den Umstand, sein Studium von seinem Vater finanziert zu bekommen, auch. Erst die Tatsache, dass sein Vater ihm dies bei jeder sich bietenden Gelegenheit vorhielt, machte Brian die Vater-Sohn-Beziehung unerträglich.

and the second excerpt belying 'at his mercy'
Von den einhunderttausend Dollar, die Daddy für Brians Studium bezahlt haben will, hatte der ‚dankbare’ Sohn über die Jahre immerhin bereits mehr als die Hälfte zurückgezahlt. Als Junioranwalt in einer eher bescheiden erfolgreichen Kanzlei hielt sich sein Salär in Grenzen.

Discussion

Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Jun 12, 2014:
So.... I have to get the two sentences in one to maintain rhythm and tone, otherwise it's becoming too polemic. Here's what I've come up with:

Had he become a lawyer whose studies were initiated and paid for by his father’s grace and favor, he could have bravely borne the burden. But his father’s insufferable habit of rubbing his nose in it at every opportunity rendered their relationship unbearable.
Kirsten Bodart Jun 12, 2014:
The why I read it (quickly) is that Brian becomes a lawyer because his father forced him to (Daddys grace used ironically) and then Daddy claims at every opportunity that he's paid 100,000 dollars for his son to become a lawyer (bezahlt haben will). Whether that figure is true or not... It probably isn't because Brian/Elaine uses the modal verb 'will' which means just claiming, not proving (unlike 'scheinen', for example). It says more about the father than about the points of view from Elaine/Brian. It also says Brian would long have chucked his law studies (geschmissen), had his father not forced him to. Anyway, the son claims he has already paid back about 50,000 of those fees.
I think maybe instead of 'insufferable', 'unbearable' or 'insupportable' woould fit too.
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Jun 11, 2014:
@Helen I know you are and you do, enormously! The subtle aspect of it being SOLELY by his father's grace and favor, ergo intensified irony or sarcasm, I owe to you.

@ Wendy - yes 'merely become - would do nicely- thanks!

@ Yorkshireman - I NEVER get notifications on time, there is always a delay, sometimes of days. I only play kudoz when I have the time anyway.
Wendy Streitparth Jun 11, 2014:
@ Ramey: Should you perhaps say "Had he just become...", because if you leave it out, it sounds to me as though these things weren't true, whereas they were. Do you follow me? Or maybe its just me.
Yorkshireman Jun 11, 2014:
Notifications Is anyone else having difficulties with notifications?

I just this moment (13:45) received a whole spate of them from 12:00-13:00)
Yorkshireman Jun 11, 2014:
@Ramey That sounds pretty good!
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2014:
@Ramey Ok, you have the context; we don't. In which case, my first post should be nearer the mark. Trying to help as best as I can...
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Jun 11, 2014:
@ Helen I apreciate your efforts, but it is definitely not Elaine's point of view, more Brian's own musings while he is waiting in line for the toilet. Unfortunately, I can't copy and paste the previous 10 pages of the novel - neither the publisher nor the author would be thrilled.
I'm tending towards something like this -
Had he become a lawyer by his father’s saving grace he could have bravely borne the burden. Had it been his father’s benevolence that had financed his entire education - well, he could have lived with that, too. It was his father’s habit of rubbing his nose in it at every possible opportunity that rendered their relationship insufferable.

What do you think?
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2014:
@Brigitte That would suggest a positive gloss on the matter. Maybe Ramey will chose to convey it in that manner. I'm not sure it is sarcastic or ironic enough though.
BrigitteHilgner Jun 11, 2014:
I like Wendy's suggestions - particularly "benevolence" (just gut feeling).
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2014:
@Ramey She is describing the disjuncture between his wish to be rebellious and what he actually does. He is only rebellious in his living room, and seems to enjoy whingeing about his father's help. She feels if he really felt like this, he would have thrown in his career as a lawyer long ago.
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2014:
@Ramey I think we are listening to Elaine's thoughts as she reports a conversation she has had with Brian or her observations of his view of his life.
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Jun 11, 2014:
Excerpt II Von den einhunderttausend Dollar, die Daddy für Bri-ans Studium bezahlt haben will, hatte der ‚dankbare’ Sohn über die Jahre immerhin bereits mehr als die Hälfte zurückgezahlt. Als Junioranwalt in einer eher bescheiden erfolgreichen Kanzlei hielt sich sein Salär in Grenzen. Um wie viel freier würde sich Brian heute Nachmittag fühlen, wenn er das Geld besitzen würde, sich von dieser Schuld freikaufen zu können!
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Jun 11, 2014:
The excerpt Die kleinen Metallstäbe, die Nase und Ohr durchbohrten, wurden in seinem Alltag als Anwalt bereits seit einem halben Jahr durch dünne, hautfarbene Membranen verborgen. In seiner Freizeit trug er sie offen zur Schau. Elaine mochte seinen unangepassten Stil, doch wenn er ehrlich war, fand seine Rebellion nur im eigenen Wohnzimmer statt. Wäre er wirklich der gewesen, der er sein wollte, dann hätte er bereits vor Jahren das Anwaltsstudium ge-schmissen. Jurist wurde er nur auf Anordnung seines Vaters. Überhaupt geschah so manches in seinem Leben nur, weil sein Vater es wollte. Anwalt von Daddys Gnaden zu sein, war etwas, das er tapfer ertragen hätte. Den Umstand, sein Studium von seinem Vater finanziert zu bekommen, auch. Erst die Tat-sache, dass sein Vater ihm dies bei jeder sich bieten-den Gelegenheit vorhielt, machte Brian die Vater-Sohn-Beziehung unerträglich.
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Jun 11, 2014:
@Wendy I assume it is the latter.

@ Helen
I see where you draw the conclusion that his father claims to have paid more than he actually had (bezahlt haben will). I read this more as an indication of Brian's mistrust regarding his father. The following third person singular narrative is the entire excerpt. We are looking in on Brian's thoughts:
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2014:
@Ramey If Elaine is doing the thinking/reporting here, then this is reported speech. So she is saying he is supposed to have done/accepted these things. In other words, he supposedly bravely bore his father's grace and favour funding of his legal studies. I would still need to see the whole thing in the right order to be able to be absolutely sure. It really depends on who is speaking.
Wendy Streitparth Jun 11, 2014:
@ Ramey: Maybe you could say thanks to his father's benevolence/magnanimity/charitability which all convey a rather strained undertone. Is it apparent that Daddy was expecting son to pay back the fees or was it just son who couldn't stomache being indebted to his father?
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Jun 11, 2014:
More context Elaine mochte seinen unangepassten Stil, doch wenn er ehrlich war, fand seine Rebellion nur im eigenen Wohnzimmer statt. Wäre er wirklich der gewesen, der er sein wollte, dann hätte er bereits vor Jahren das Anwaltsstudium geschmissen. Jurist wurde er nur auf Anordnung seines Vaters.
The above posted context immediately follows this. I don't believe his father exaggerated the amount, but rubbed his nose in it at every opportunity. I get the sarcasm and the condescension. By the grace of his father he became a lawyer, but Brian didn't want to become a lawyer in the first place, but only did so because his father wanted him to - touching on the aristocratic or royal authority.
But usually, even when one receives something by the grace of a condescending mentor, it is something desirable, despite the sense of indebtedness.
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2014:
@ Brigitte The condescending equivalent in EN is 'by someone's grace and favour' - as if the person bestowing the favour is of aristocratic or royal rank. It is rather sarcastic in both GER and EN.
BrigitteHilgner Jun 11, 2014:
von Gnaden so heißt das auf Deutsch (nicht "von Gnade").
Difficult question because "von Gnaden" frequently (as in this case) has a negative touch - dependence is involved, frequently also condescension.
"Er ist Abteilungsleiter von Herrn Müllers Gnaden" - should Mr. Müller leave the company the guy won't stay head of the department for much longer.
I was thinking of "clemency" but in a way that still seems to positive a term.
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2014:
@Ramey It says that the fact that his father held it against him made his life unbearable. You have the complete context, but from what is written here, it seems that his father has exaggerated the amount he has helped him and is holding it against his son. The son is saying, well, actually, I had to pay half of it back and it is making my life on the salary of a Junior-Anwalt very financially difficult.
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Jun 11, 2014:
@Helen So far so good his father did pay his fees and he has paid half of them back. So if his father had GRACIOUSLY enabled him to become a lawyer and KINDLY paid his his college fees, then he would have been able to live with it?
freekfluweel Jun 11, 2014:
... weil sein Vater es wollte... ... His father dictated how he should run his life. His father wanted him to become a lawyer and he obediently became one. On top of that father was boasting around that he paid for his studies never mentioning that son had indeed paid half of it back (for a study that might not have been his fist choice). Son swallowed all this but the father-son relationship went down the drain..."

that's how I read it...

-> as the obedient son he was to his father/for his father's grace...
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2014:
Or more elegantly He would have been able to stand it ...
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2014:
Subjunctive / reported speech? It is saying he could have stood it if by Daddy's grace and favour he had become a lawyer or if he had his university fees paid by his father. However, his father withheld these things. Later he says that his father claimed to have paid for his studies but in fact he ended up paying half back. Loosely translated

Proposed translations

+4
30 mins
Selected

by grace and favour of

See discussion entry
Peer comment(s):

agree mill2
4 mins
Thanks, mill2
agree H. C. Centner : Excellent choice, Helen
5 hrs
Thanks, Helen
agree Kirsten Bodart : Personally I would leave 'favour off' as 'grace and favour' has something temporary that goes with position. 'By the grace of'?
1 day 1 hr
Thanks, but that is only its literal use. it is perfectly ok and idiomatic to use it as I suggest. And there is a suggestion of power relations in that the father has the money and dictates what the son does as a result.
agree Lancashireman : The perils of agreeing - and then suggesting a tweak that actually negates it.
1 day 8 hrs
Thanks, Andrew
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you Helen! I used it verbatim. And thank you all for the excellent discussion. As always, I'm indebted. I've just begun the novel, so you'll be hearing from me soon!"
1 hr

by/through the magnanimity of

by or through

"...through Daddy's magnanimity was a burden he would have bravely borne."

goodwill and benevolence would also work
Peer comment(s):

neutral Helen Shiner : These are all fine if a positive note needs to be sounded. I read the passage as sarcastic or highly ironic, but I guess it will be down to Ramey to sort out how she wants to play it./Grace and favour is only positive in, e.g., an 18th cent. context!
49 mins
Properties occupied rent-free by employees of the Crown are also still known as grace and favour homes, e.g. 10 Downing Street, Chequers, Admiralty House.
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