French term
consommateur d'attention moyenne, normalement informé et raisonnablement avisé
"qu'il s'infère en définitive de la comparaison visuelle, phonétique et intellectuelle des signes en présence une impression d'ensemble suffisamment différente pour exclure un risque de confusion, même pour des produits identiques ou similaires, dans l'esprit du consommateur d'attention moyenne, normalement informé et raisonnablement avisé, lequel ne serait pas fondé à considérer le signe contesté comme une déclinaison de la marque première et attribuer aux produits couverts par les signes en cause une origine commune ni à les associer comme provenant d'entreprises économiquement liées ;"
"1) et à en déduire « une impression d'ensemble suffisamment différente pour exclure un risque de confusion, même pour des produits identiques ou similaires, dans l'esprit du consommateur d'attention moyenne, normalement informé et raisonnablement avisé » (arrêt attaqué ..."
My stab at this, after perusing the Interweb for a while for texts produced by m'learned friends, is "reasonably observant, normally informed and reasonably circumspect consumer".
Jun 21, 2020 21:47: Andrea Capuselli changed "Term Context" from "Note to <b>Tony M</b>: it appears that you chose to remove this question several times yesterday on the basis that it was asking \"more than one thing\". This is not the case at all. This entire phrase is most definitely an \"all in one\" legal expression used frequently, in its entirety, in the area of intellectual property, something which can be proved very easily by Googling the French phrase. If you still disagree, is it asking too much for you to start a discussion on this point and allow others to contribute their views rather than deleting it? I think you would find that other legal specialists here will endorse what I claim. ============================================================ Intellectual property (trademarks) dispute, Cour de cassation. Comparison of new trade mark seeking registration with an existing one. \"qu\'il s\'infère en définitive de la comparaison visuelle, phonétique et intellectuelle des signes en présence une impression d\'ensemble suffisamment différente pour exclure un risque de confusion, même pour des produits identiques ou similaires, dans l\'esprit du <b>consommateur d\'attention moyenne, normalement informé et raisonnablement avisé</b>, lequel ne serait pas fondé à considérer le signe contesté comme une déclinaison de la marque première et attribuer aux produits couverts par les signes en cause une origine commune ni à les associer comme provenant d\'entreprises économiquement liées ;\" \"1) et à en déduire « une impression d\'ensemble suffisamment différente pour exclure un risque de confusion, même pour des produits identiques ou similaires, dans l\'esprit du <b>consommateur d\'attention moyenne, normalement informé et raisonnablement avisé</b> » (arrêt attaqué ...\" My stab at this, after perusing the Interweb for a while for texts produced by m\'learned friends, is \"reasonably observant, normally informed and reasonably circumspect consumer\"." to "This entire phrase isan \"all in one\" legal expression used frequently, in its entirety, in the area of intellectual property. Intellectual property (trademarks) dispute, Cour de cassation. Comparison of new trade mark seeking registration with an existing one. \"qu\'il s\'infère en définitive de la comparaison visuelle, phonétique et intellectuelle des signes en présence une impression d\'ensemble suffisamment différente pour exclure un risque de confusion, même pour des produits identiques ou similaires, dans l\'esprit du <b>consommateur d\'attention moyenne, normalement informé et raisonnablement avisé</b>, lequel ne serait pas fondé à considérer le signe contesté comme une déclinaison de la marque première et attribuer aux produits couverts par les signes en cause une origine commune ni à les associer comme provenant d\'entreprises économiquement liées ;\" \"1) et à en déduire « une impression d\'ensemble suffisamment différente pour exclure un risque de confusion, même pour des produits identiques ou similaires, dans l\'esprit du <b>consommateur d\'attention moyenne, normalement informé et raisonnablement avisé</b> » (arrêt attaqué ...\" My stab at this, after perusing the Interweb for a while for texts produced by m\'learned friends, is \"reasonably observant, normally informed and reasonably circumspect consumer\"."
Proposed translations
"reasonably well informed and reasonably observant and circumspect" consumer
According to settled case-law, the consumer of alcoholic drinks is a member of the general public, deemed to be reasonably well informed and reasonably observant and circumspect (see judgment of 4 May 2016, BOTANIC WILLIAMS & HUMBERT LONDON DRY GIN, T‑1
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Suzie Withers
3 hrs
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Merci Suzie. I think defendant was trying to argue that someone that buys their exceptional Scotch is smarter than the average consumer.
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philgoddard
: But I don't agree with the repetition. "Reasonably well informed, observant, and circumspect." And existing translations aren't "official" - they're just one person's opinion.
9 hrs
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Merci Phil. Again, query whether one may seek better synonyms in preestablished law.
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Francois Boye
: well-informed does not mean having an average attention; reasonably and normally are two different adverbs.
13 hrs
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Merci Francois. True, but query whether one may seek better synonyms in preestablished law.
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Yolanda Broad
15 hrs
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Merci Yolanda
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SafeTex
: thank gawd one suggestion sounds English at least.
2 days 17 hrs
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Merci Tex
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United States
Lawyer-Translator-Certified Interpreter
Native in: English (Variants: Canadian, Irish, British, UK, US, Scottish)
Works in: French to English, English to French
consumer of average attentiveness, with a normal amount of information, and reasonable prudence
But "normally + past participle or adjective" doesn't. If you say a person is "normally informed," native EN speakers hear that as something like, "normally she's well informed, although perhaps she wasn't in this case."
So if you want to keep "normal," which I would agree with others is more important than the syntax, it's best to rephrase. Having rephrased that part, the rest of the sentence works better with a bit of rephrasing as well. The last bit might be slightly closer in meaning as "reasonable circumspection," but that sounds just ODD in EN, even legal EN. Investisseur avisé is the FR translation of another very common EN legal term: the "prudent investor." Hence, prudent consumer > consumer with reasonable prudence.
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mrrafe
: Same comment as twice above: a cited precedent mustn't be modified for editorial reasons.
2 hrs
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See discussion: I didn't change the cited precedent -- in FR it isn't identical to Mpoma's text.
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AllegroTrans
: "with a normal amount of information" sounds really vague and woolly
16 hrs
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SafeTex
: Such a long justification to arrive at "with a normal amount of information" which sounds like an abonimation in English
2 days 3 hrs
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United States
An economic geek with social skills
Native in: French 
Works in: English to French, French to English, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
the consumer of average attention, normally well-informed and reasonably well-advised
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Note added at 18 hrs (2020-06-20 23:55:56 GMT)
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The reasonably well-informed and normally diligent tenderer was first introduced by the European Court of Justice to allow the principle of transparency within the EU Procurement Directives to be considered (SIAC Construction Ltd v County Council of Mayo (Case C-19/00) [2001] ECR I-7725).
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Eliza Hall
: I see what you're getting at, but we just don't use "normally" this way in EN. "Normally well-informed" means "usually well-informed (but perhaps not so well informed this time)."//This isn't statistical analysis but normal, educated legal English.
16 mins
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Normally is a statistical concept used in quantitative analysis. In addition, did you read the attachment?
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United Kingdom
experienced and well qualified linguist
Native in: English (Variant: UK)
Works in: Spanish to English, English, Spanish, and 3 more.
customer of moderate attentiveness, reasonably well informed and sensible
"Dans l'esprit du consommateur d'attention moyenne, normalement informé et raisonnablement avisé,lequel ne serait pas fondé à considérer le signe contesté comme une déclinaison de la marque première."
I understand it means:
"The moderately attentive, reasonably well informed and sensible customer would not consider the opposing brand name on an item's label as a decline in the first brand name."
Discussion
Personally, here I would find and cite the case(s) (supposedly to be found in Humbert) that use the terms closest to what this Speciality court was trying to quote, edit nothing in pursuit of a "better" mot juste, and include both EN and FR from the prior cases via parentheses or footnote. If the antecedent quotes can't be found, the 2nd best solution would be to quote both the EN and FR as misremembered by this court. But other translators prefer to leave nothing untranslated, except coq au vin or such.
Asker: How would you translate this phrase in a court opinion: "courts have held that desegregation should be done with adequate speed"?
Answerer A: Blabla vitesse adéquate...
Answerer B: Well, what other courts actually held was that it should be done "with all deliberate speed." So "délibéré" should be the translation, not "adéquate."
?
I'm with Answerer A on this sort of thing. We're not translating Brown v. Board of Ed. itself, we're translating another case that paraphrased it. We should translate what this court actually said, not what the case it's referencing said.
I didn't complete Mpoma's research but my original advice to them was that they look at Speciality, and Humbert if necessary and possible, in hope of finding a prior version exactly like the ST. Anything purporting to be the settled definition of a smart consumer should have an exact match in prior phraseology and, again, should be left totally unedited.
FR "le consommateur moyen... normalement informé et raisonnablement attentif et avisé..."
EN "the average consumer... who is reasonably well informed and reasonably observant and circumspect..." (see paragraph 19 at your link: http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf;jsessioni...
That is indeed essentially the same concept from a legal point of view, but it's not identical language to what's in Mpoma's text. Your case doesn't even have "d'attention moyenne" in it.
I translated what was in his FR text, and it's not identical to the FR version of the case you cited. So I am not sure what you meant when you claimed that I had "modified [precedent] for editorial reasons."
- average
- targeted
- vulnerable
https://www.businesscompanion.info/en/quick-guides/good-prac...
The description of the "average consumer" backs up the asker's "stab" and mrrafe's proposed translation