Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
un turque d'outretombe
English translation:
a(n arcane) Turkish patois
French term
un turque d'outretombe
"C’est qu’alors qu’une petite fille, qui devait avoir entre trois et quatre ans, reçut l’ordre (en un turque d’outre-tombe) de me guider vers un tas de détritus qui gisait non loin de là"
This is about Turkish-speaking "Roms", whose language is therefore tortuous and distorted by centuries of various migrations. The expression "Un turque d'outre-tombe", here, means here "an abstruse Turkish language". I do have a few translation ideas, but not being native, I just beg your advice.
May 26, 2020 12:42: Yvonne Gallagher Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
a Turkish patois
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/patois
the form of a language spoken by people in a particular area that is different from the standard language of the country:
the local patois
https://www.lexico.com/definition/patois
The dialect of a particular region, especially one with low status in relation to the standard language of the country.
‘the nurse talked to me in a patois that even Italians would have had difficulty in understanding’
1.1 The jargon or informal speech used by a particular social group.
examples ‘the raunchy patois of inner-city kids’
‘We have 1984 today; even if not in the form described by Orwell; since newspeak is replaced by the patois of the gang leaders and international body smugglers.’
‘To emulate (in the specific patois of archivists) is to re-create a work that uses a defunct technology by essentially re-copying it into a current technology.’
Origin
Mid 17th century French, literally ‘rough speech’, perhaps from Old French patoier ‘treat roughly’, from patte ‘paw’.
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Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2020-05-25 11:55:43 GMT)
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You could also add "arcane" or "abstruse" to emphasise its rarity or obscurity
[she spoke in] an arcane/abstruse Turkish patois
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Note added at 2 days 23 hrs (2020-05-26 12:41:00 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to have helped (and that I finally managed to remember the right word for this!)
a wacky / archaic / outlandish Turkish
agree |
philgoddard
: I think wacky is too colloquial, and outlandish too denigratory. But archaic works.
9 mins
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OK, thanks, Phil
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agree |
James A. Walsh
: Yeah I like archaic too - works well here!
3 hrs
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Thanks James
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agree |
Carol Gullidge
: archaic
5 hrs
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Thanks Carol
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agree |
ormiston
: Archaic
19 hrs
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Thanks ormiston
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agree |
Marian Vieyra
: Archaic
21 hrs
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Thanks Marian
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neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: I completely disagree with "outlandish" and "wacky" and am not so sure about "archaic" either
23 hrs
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Thank you Yvonne
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neutral |
Saro Nova
: outlandish sounds not right. See my suggestion for BASTARDIZED TURKISH, with sample sentence and reference. I realize it doesn't translate OUTRE-TOMBE exactly, but I think it's easily approximated by adding "archaic" or other suggestions herein before it.
1 day 19 hrs
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Turkish of another world
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Note added at 1 hr (2020-05-23 14:31:32 GMT)
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Of another world in time.
is "Otherworldly Turkish" also correct ? |
outdated/obsolete Turkish
agree |
Carol Gullidge
: this is how I see it!
4 hrs
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Tanks!
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agree |
Marian Vieyra
: Obsolete would be my choice.
19 hrs
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Thanks!
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an outdated or outlandish Turkish
I agree it means outdated or outlandish.
Une petite fille, qui devait avoir entre trois ou quatre ans, reçut l'ordre (en un turque d'outretombe) de me guider vers un tas de détritus qui gisait non loin de là.
A small girl of three or four years old received the order (in an outlandish or outdated Turkish) to guide me towards a pile of debris (litter) which was laid not far from there.
bastardized Turkish
...Armenian nationalism had moved the Kurds to ally with the Turkish- ... a dialect of bastardized Turkish, which had evolved while these individuals had ...
Is it pejorative in English? In french, it is. |
a Turk from beyond the grave
1st idea: A Turk from overseas.
2nd idea: A Turk from beyond the grave (outre-tombe).
I am leaning toward the 'beyond the grave' it is more other worldly, literary and poetic.
Discussion