Alphabet-based story translation
Thread poster: Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
France
Local time: 13:15
English to French
Sep 15, 2020

Hello everyone !

I need a translation tip please.
I am going to translate a book for children based on the alphabet. Each letter of the alphabet is represented by an animal whose name starts by this letter. How would you deal with the translation of these names ? Because of course everything will be messed up as animal names in different languages don't start with the same letter ?

Your help and ideas will be much appreciated...
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Hello everyone !

I need a translation tip please.
I am going to translate a book for children based on the alphabet. Each letter of the alphabet is represented by an animal whose name starts by this letter. How would you deal with the translation of these names ? Because of course everything will be messed up as animal names in different languages don't start with the same letter ?

Your help and ideas will be much appreciated
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Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 13:15
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
One idea Sep 15, 2020

Emmanuelle ARBELLINI wrote:
Each letter of the alphabet is represented by an animal whose name starts by this letter.


How about changing it to characteristics instead? This way, the letter remains and the animal remains, but you have control over which word is associated with the letter. So, for example the word for "ant" in my own language does not start with "A", but I can think of a descriptive word or phrase that goes with "A", e.g. "Die mier is altyd aan die gang" (the ant is very busy).


expressisverbis
P.L.F. Persio
 
Alistair Gainey
Alistair Gainey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:15
Russian to English
More details Sep 15, 2020

Are you in contact with a publisher about this? Are we talking about literally just pictures of animals and their names? Or is there more text as well - descriptions, poems or something?

expressisverbis
Sheila Wilson
P.L.F. Persio
 
expressisverbis
expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 12:15
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Localisation and transcreation/creative translation Sep 15, 2020

Hi Emmanuelle!
I have done a similar job in the past from ES to PT. Although these languages can have similarities, I found some troubles: for ex., (dog) "perro" in Spanish and "cão" in Portuguese.
What we agreed (PM, editor, client, and me) was to change the picture of the animal concerned.
We did use more localisation and creative translation rather than the translation itself.
Try to check with the persons involved if you could try one of these solutions: localise or
... See more
Hi Emmanuelle!
I have done a similar job in the past from ES to PT. Although these languages can have similarities, I found some troubles: for ex., (dog) "perro" in Spanish and "cão" in Portuguese.
What we agreed (PM, editor, client, and me) was to change the picture of the animal concerned.
We did use more localisation and creative translation rather than the translation itself.
Try to check with the persons involved if you could try one of these solutions: localise or transcreate the text, or even change the pictures of the animals.
It is an incredibly challenging task; I really did enjoy working on that ES-PT project. It was a very pleasant job!
I am sure you will love it, too! Good luck!


[Edited at 2020-09-15 11:02 GMT]
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Kay Denney
P.L.F. Persio
Fiona Grace Peterson
 
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
France
Local time: 13:15
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks everyone ! Sep 15, 2020

@Samuel : This is a very good idea ! I will ask the author ! Thanks !

@Alistair : I am doing this via Babelcube, so I am in contact with the author. I asked him how he would like me to handle this. The story is about an animal making friends, and the letters matter a lot as they follow the alphabet; and yes, there is text along with them (which I haven't read yet, because the document is sent only after the contracts are signed). I am waiting for his reply. I'm not sure I was right,
... See more
@Samuel : This is a very good idea ! I will ask the author ! Thanks !

@Alistair : I am doing this via Babelcube, so I am in contact with the author. I asked him how he would like me to handle this. The story is about an animal making friends, and the letters matter a lot as they follow the alphabet; and yes, there is text along with them (which I haven't read yet, because the document is sent only after the contracts are signed). I am waiting for his reply. I'm not sure I was right, but I told him something would be lost in translation, as is the case with any text.

@expressisverbis : Yes I love these kinds of challenging jobs ! I asked the author if something could be changed, or maybe even rewritten, still waiting for his reply.

Sorry I haven't quoted each one of you, I simply don't know how to do it ^^'
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expressisverbis
 
Niina Lahokoski
Niina Lahokoski  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 14:15
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
Using first names? Sep 15, 2020

One possible solution that occurs to me: give each animal a first name according to the alphabet, similarly to "Andy the Aardvark" - for example in Finnish, an aardvark could be called "Antti-maasika" (Antti being a common male first name), a bee could be "Bella-mehiläinen" and so on. Some letters might be more tricky than others though.
Still, it's best to talk it over with the client.

[Edited at 2020-09-15 20:57 GMT]


P.L.F. Persio
 
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
France
Local time: 13:15
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
not possible, sadly :/ Sep 16, 2020

Niina Lahokoski wrote:

One possible solution that occurs to me: give each animal a first name according to the alphabet, similarly to "Andy the Aardvark" - for example in Finnish, an aardvark could be called "Antti-maasika" (Antti being a common male first name), a bee could be "Bella-mehiläinen" and so on. Some letters might be more tricky than others though.
Still, it's best to talk it over with the client.

[Edited at 2020-09-15 20:57 GMT]


It would have been a very good idea, but each animal already has a first name beginning with the first letter of its name. This complicates a bit further the challenge ^^' Thanks for sharing your idea, though


 
Fiona Grace Peterson
Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 13:15
Italian to English
Adaptation Sep 17, 2020

If the author really cares about the translation of his work, he needs to work with you to change the animals to fit the target language. I don't see any alternative.

Sheila Wilson
expressisverbis
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
philgoddard
 
Elena Feriani
Elena Feriani
Italy
Local time: 13:15
Member
French to Italian
+ ...
Transcreation / Select another book! Sep 17, 2020

You need to ask the author's permission to adapt it in a creative way that works in your language or just change book if this is too complicated. Babelcube is full of books.

Sheila Wilson
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
 
Michael Wetzel
Michael Wetzel  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:15
German to English
Nonsense? Sep 18, 2020

The author is probably just not thinking straight, and this project probably makes no sense.

Solving the problem by changing the first names of the animals to not match the names of the depicted animals would kind of be defeating the purpose of a book that uses pictures and a story featuring the names of animals to help children learn the alphabet. I think there is actually a fair amount of psychological research based on messing with people's heads precisely in this way: writing th
... See more
The author is probably just not thinking straight, and this project probably makes no sense.

Solving the problem by changing the first names of the animals to not match the names of the depicted animals would kind of be defeating the purpose of a book that uses pictures and a story featuring the names of animals to help children learn the alphabet. I think there is actually a fair amount of psychological research based on messing with people's heads precisely in this way: writing the name of a color in a different color or the name of an animal on a picture of a different animal and then seeing how much it confuses them, slows them down and interferes with memory. I think it is essential that the picture immediately calls the appropriate letter to mind.

Theoretically, you could make a table with all the animal names from the original book, translate them all into French, see which letters are missing and which have multiple entries, see if you can use alternative names for a few animals to convincingly fix a few of those problems, then tell the author he needs to draw new pictures for the letters that are missing. If you could somehow convince him to do that, then you could rewrite the story so that Charles Chien does whatever Daryl Dog does in the original book - while making sure not to contradict any elements of the story that can be seen in the pictures.

And just as a reminder: Have you read about Babelcube here? A children's book might actually be a way to make money through that site; however, because no one else involved in this project has any reason to worry about the most important question, you need to ask yourself: Why would anyone want to buy this particular book in French?

... I am also trying to figure out if gender is more likely to cause you trouble or offer you opportunities or not have much effect at all.
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MollyRose
Katalin Horváth McClure
philgoddard
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:15
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
The most important question Sep 18, 2020

Michael Wetzel wrote:
you need to ask yourself: Why would anyone want to buy this particular book in French?

And what, realistically, is going to be the answer if you simply translate the words? Personally, I'd think it would be a big fat zero. Books for kids need to be absolutely spot on.


Katalin Horváth McClure
 
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
France
Local time: 13:15
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
thank you all :) Sep 18, 2020

@Fiona & Elena, I totally agree with you. That is the best solution.
@Sheila : True, these kinds of books need to be adapted to be spot on. I wonder how the other translators dealt with this issue (this book was already translated several times)

I must add, I have written a couple of messages to the author, still waiting for his answer. I know he lives in the USA, and I am hoping he wasn't affected by the different disasters there, as he answered pretty quick the first time. I
... See more
@Fiona & Elena, I totally agree with you. That is the best solution.
@Sheila : True, these kinds of books need to be adapted to be spot on. I wonder how the other translators dealt with this issue (this book was already translated several times)

I must add, I have written a couple of messages to the author, still waiting for his answer. I know he lives in the USA, and I am hoping he wasn't affected by the different disasters there, as he answered pretty quick the first time. I hope he didn't think me unprofessional because I asked his opinion on how to handle this. Anyway I am giving him time, but I may indeed cancel the job eventually.

Michael Wetzel wrote:

The author is probably just not thinking straight, and this project probably makes no sense.

Solving the problem by changing the first names of the animals to not match the names of the depicted animals would kind of be defeating the purpose of a book that uses pictures and a story featuring the names of animals to help children learn the alphabet. I think there is actually a fair amount of psychological research based on messing with people's heads precisely in this way: writing the name of a color in a different color or the name of an animal on a picture of a different animal and then seeing how much it confuses them, slows them down and interferes with memory. I think it is essential that the picture immediately calls the appropriate letter to mind.

Theoretically, you could make a table with all the animal names from the original book, translate them all into French, see which letters are missing and which have multiple entries, see if you can use alternative names for a few animals to convincingly fix a few of those problems, then tell the author he needs to draw new pictures for the letters that are missing. If you could somehow convince him to do that, then you could rewrite the story so that Charles Chien does whatever Daryl Dog does in the original book - while making sure not to contradict any elements of the story that can be seen in the pictures.

And just as a reminder: Have you read about Babelcube here? A children's book might actually be a way to make money through that site; however, because no one else involved in this project has any reason to worry about the most important question, you need to ask yourself: Why would anyone want to buy this particular book in French?

... I am also trying to figure out if gender is more likely to cause you trouble or offer you opportunities or not have much effect at all.


I totally see your point about keeping the same letter, let's try to keep it simple for young kids.
Making a table is good idea, kinda what I wanted to do; I already asked the author if he could send the names to me, still waiting...
I will check the forum about babelcube. My reason to translate on babelcube is to gain a bit of experience, I am aware that if you don't pick your book carefully it may be one that doesn't sell. Anyway, saying you translated a couple of books always looks nice on a cv
Gender shouldn't cause much trouble, eventhough the animals do have a gender in French, you can give them a male or female first name, it doesn't usually matter. However, in this instance I can't really say, as i haven't read the book yet
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Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:15
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Do not sign any contract without seeing the entire thing Sep 19, 2020

Michael Wetzel wrote pretty much what I wanted to, and I agree with Sheila Wilson as well.
This seems to be a very challenging proposition, and possibly impossible.
In addition, I want to point out this comment of yours:
I haven't read yet, because the document is sent only after the contracts are signed

It is outright scary.
Please do not sign the contract, do not commit to t
... See more
Michael Wetzel wrote pretty much what I wanted to, and I agree with Sheila Wilson as well.
This seems to be a very challenging proposition, and possibly impossible.
In addition, I want to point out this comment of yours:
I haven't read yet, because the document is sent only after the contracts are signed

It is outright scary.
Please do not sign the contract, do not commit to this project without seeing the entire thing. It is true for most new projects/clients, but especially in this case.
(By the way, is this a book that has not been published yet? You said it has been translated to other languages, so I am a bit confused as to why they are not giving you the text.)
You can sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement), if they are afraid that you would somehow steal their ideas, but please demand to see the entire text.
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Sheila Wilson
Niina Lahokoski
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
P.L.F. Persio
 
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
Emmanuelle ARBELLINI
France
Local time: 13:15
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
update Sep 19, 2020

Ok, I heard from the author, he is busy writing another book right now, so we may pause the job. He agrees that adapting/transcreating is the only option, but he has no time for this at the moment.

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Michael Wetzel wrote pretty much what I wanted to, and I agree with Sheila Wilson as well.
This seems to be a very challenging proposition, and possibly impossible.
In addition, I want to point out this comment of yours:
I haven't read yet, because the document is sent only after the contracts are signed

It is outright scary.
Please do not sign the contract, do not commit to this project without seeing the entire thing. It is true for most new projects/clients, but especially in this case.
(By the way, is this a book that has not been published yet? You said it has been translated to other languages, so I am a bit confused as to why they are not giving you the text.)
You can sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement), if they are afraid that you would somehow steal their ideas, but please demand to see the entire text.


The author sent me the whole book, so I can have a look at it, and I also have a copy of the contract that I will read carefully, no matter how tedious this is, specially in a foreign tongue... So you see, all is well.
I love racking my brains with this sort of projects, and see how far i can go Anyway, thanks for your input and good advice, I will keep them in mind for my next job


 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 13:15
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
May not work. Sep 20, 2020

Samuel Murray wrote:

Emmanuelle ARBELLINI wrote:
Each letter of the alphabet is represented by an animal whose name starts by this letter.


How about changing it to characteristics instead? This way, the letter remains and the animal remains, but you have control over which word is associated with the letter. So, for example the word for "ant" in my own language does not start with "A", but I can think of a descriptive word or phrase that goes with "A", e.g. "Die mier is altyd aan die gang" (the ant is very busy).


The point of this book seems to be for small children to connect the name (simple noun) with an image (visual) of an animal. Your idea seems too abstract for this simple concept probably targeted at pre-school children.

It seems the whole book needs to be reworked to fit the logic of the French language, which is basically creation/creative copywriting, not translation.


P.L.F. Persio
 


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Alphabet-based story translation







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