Post-editing: the inevitable way to turn the freelance translator into a slave
Thread poster: Anne-Catherine Dall'Orso
Anne-Catherine Dall'Orso
Anne-Catherine Dall'Orso
Italy
Local time: 07:50
Italian to French
+ ...
Nov 3, 2020

(The following text has been translated into English with the kind assistance of Deepl)
The other day I received a proposal for a post-editing translation (Italian - French): a medical text that had been translated on Deepl (I tried it out and I must say the copy-paste was 100% perfect... what a skill). I therefore had to produce a correct translation for the price of 0.049 euro/word instead of 0.070. I then wondered whether the fact that I was using a computer instead of a typewriter sho
... See more
(The following text has been translated into English with the kind assistance of Deepl)
The other day I received a proposal for a post-editing translation (Italian - French): a medical text that had been translated on Deepl (I tried it out and I must say the copy-paste was 100% perfect... what a skill). I therefore had to produce a correct translation for the price of 0.049 euro/word instead of 0.070. I then wondered whether the fact that I was using a computer instead of a typewriter should lower my rate even further, the same goes for using an electric lamp instead of a candle, or using e-mails instead of paper mails or smoke signals, etc. When CAT systems came along, they made translation fairer, i.e. reusing segments, sentences, entire passages of texts that had already been translated and checked by experts at a fair lower translation cost. But with post-editing, a border was crossed into the land of abusive capitalism. The mega-translation agencies jumped at the opportunity to make a profit at the expense of the poor freelance translator. They have even come to tolerate and promote illiteracy with post-editing defined as LIGHT where some light errors are accepted as long as the text can be understood: whatsapp or sms language could therefore have a chance! Just kidding. Instead of accepting the use of machine translation as an additional aid (i.e. the use of databases available on the Internet), as it had been the case with electricity, computers, software, online dictionaries, etc., it has been established that machine translation is no longer an aid, but almost perfection and that the translator contributes just a little to the final result. His skill and experience seem to have become derisory and must therefore receive a derisory wage. This is not true nor fair, but abusive capitalism has always been able to hypnotize people since the dawn of time. It is up to freelance translators to arise against this situation and demand respect by simply boycotting post-editing when it is a simple copy and paste on engines that are accessible to everyone. Freelance translators have already (rightly) integrated the percentages from CAT systems. Companies who wish to translate their text with Deepl or other means can do so, but in the case they use professional translators for quality work, the latter deserve a fair salary. The debate is open!
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VICTORIA SMITH SALGUEIRO
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Sadek_A
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! Nov 3, 2020

I don't see anything "inevitable" about it.

At first, they were using human translators to collect their translations at low rates so they can build their own "corresponding source-target library". Now, they are using that library to build a newer one at bupkis rates.

Let's say their former accuracy in the first library was 80%; now, the latter accuracy in the new library will be even lower, much much lower.

They're actually ruining themselves. That's like
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I don't see anything "inevitable" about it.

At first, they were using human translators to collect their translations at low rates so they can build their own "corresponding source-target library". Now, they are using that library to build a newer one at bupkis rates.

Let's say their former accuracy in the first library was 80%; now, the latter accuracy in the new library will be even lower, much much lower.

They're actually ruining themselves. That's like collecting parts from accident cars, and then having a teenager assemble them.

All we need is: they push, we push back.
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Maria Pia Giuseppina Nuzzolese
 
Samuel Murray
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English to Afrikaans
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@Anne (-: Nov 3, 2020

I think different translators find different things easy or difficult, enjoyable or distasteful. For example, some translators have no problem reading dense blocks of text with not a paragraph break in sight, while others just can't do it without getting a headache. (-:

no paragraphs

Anne-Catherine Dall'Orso wrote:
The other day I received a proposal for a post-editing translation (Italian - French): a medical text that had been translated on Deepl. I therefore had to produce a correct translation for the price of 0.049 euro/word instead of 0.070.


The usual arguments apply, e.g. automation is improving in our industry to such an extend that some translators are no longer able to make a decent living doing what they had done in previous decades. You should continuously ask yourself, "Can I make a living at this rate?", and when the answer approaches "no", it's time to quit and find some other job. But I understand that not all translators can do other jobs, so unfortunately it's just something that they have to accept: the translation world is changing, and we have no choice but to suffer the changes.

It's not the fault of capitalism or large agencies etc. etc. that clients try to reduce cost and that one way that clients do that is to use automation.

It has been established that machine translation is no longer an aid, but almost perfection and that the translator contributes just a little to the final result. His skill and experience seem to have become derisory and must therefore receive a derisory wage.


The reason for the lower rate is because rate is tied to the amount of work (i.e. the number of hours). Only in some fields was the rate ever tied to the amount of skill or the amount of expertise or to the level of status of the translator. In most fields, the rate has always been tied (to a greater or lesser degree) to how long it takes to do the translation. This has nothing to do with derision. If one person works for 1 hour and gets paid for 1 hour, and another works for 2 hours and gets paid for 2 hours, it's not derisory to the first one that he got paid less. Even if it would have taken him 2 hours to do the job five years ago and he would thus have benefited from getting twice as much money on that day.

[Edited at 2020-11-03 11:51 GMT]


Jorge Payan
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Anne-Catherine Dall'Orso
Anne-Catherine Dall'Orso
Italy
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Italian to French
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TOPIC STARTER
Answer to Mr. Murray about post-editing Nov 4, 2020

Sorry about the headache. I was afraid I was going to exceed the number of words allowed so I eliminated the spaces.You are right, it was fundamental to underline it first.

Thank you for your answer.

I do not agree with the fact of capitalism. In today's translation, all the elements show that competition is totally unfair, because there is no guaranteed minimum rate, which opens the door to all the excesses that we see every day, excesses that are only possible for lar
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Sorry about the headache. I was afraid I was going to exceed the number of words allowed so I eliminated the spaces.You are right, it was fundamental to underline it first.

Thank you for your answer.

I do not agree with the fact of capitalism. In today's translation, all the elements show that competition is totally unfair, because there is no guaranteed minimum rate, which opens the door to all the excesses that we see every day, excesses that are only possible for large agencies which, I would like to say, at least for Italy, often have in their offices "employees" with Community VAT (PM and others), that is to say in the liberal professions (rings a bell ?).

Capitalism is a world where the decent minimum price of things is not guaranteed. Other professional categories defend themselves better against this. But the translator category is invisible, has no social or political weight, and therefore its worst enemy is itself, its lack of reaction against abuses, and the extreme temptation to say that you have to get used to it, that it's life, that there's nothing you can do about it. How convenient.
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Maria Pia Giuseppina Nuzzolese
Yaotl Altan
 
Anton Konashenok
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Czech Republic
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French to English
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Wrong talk Nov 4, 2020

Freelancers are entrepreneurs by the nature of their business, and entrepreneurship is - guess what? - capitalism. If you want a better pay, you can study to become a better translator, and then look for the clients willing to pay good money for good quality. Believe me, there are plenty of them. But if you want guarantees, your only solution to stop freelancing and get an in-house job.

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The problem with the whole premise Nov 5, 2020

If you freelance, you have no employer and no boss. You decide what work to accept, what you will charge, and how you will do the work. If a customer doesn't like what you propose, then they don't become a customer. If you run your own business, you are not a "slave". That is an impossibility.

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Maria Pia Giuseppina Nuzzolese
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English to Italian
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SITE LOCALIZER
Personally, Nov 6, 2020

Samuel Murray wrote:

The reason for the lower rate is because rate is tied to the amount of work (i.e. the number of hours). Only in some fields was the rate ever tied to the amount of skill or the amount of expertise or to the level of status of the translator. In most fields, the rate has always been tied (to a greater or lesser degree) to how long it takes to do the translation. This has nothing to do with derision. If one person works for 1 hour and gets paid for 1 hour, and another works for 2 hours and gets paid for 2 hours, it's not derisory to the first one that he got paid less. Even if it would have taken him 2 hours to do the job five years ago and he would thus have benefited from getting twice as much money on that day.

[Edited at 2020-11-03 11:51 GMT]


I disagree, and I think that’s the biggest misunderstanding here.

Let’s take for instance a chef: automation is used A LOT while cooking (just think about all those robots and kitchen aids) but this DOES NOT mean that I’m going to pay peanuts something cooked by Gordon Ramsay only because he used an automatic vegetable slicer! This only means that Gordon can start cooking later, because he will need less time if compared to the past.

The equation time savings = money savings is valid for non-specialized jobs and for all those jobs in which you pay one person’s time. Here, you pay one person’s experience, and that’s not something negotiable. If you want a professional translation you must pay for it; then, if I decide to use automation to speed up my work (which I still think isn’t the case for MTPE) then we can cut the deadline, but not the costs.


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Jeff Whittaker
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Spanish to English
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Solution Nov 6, 2020

Just take the project. Figure out which MT site they used. Then put the original through a different MT site, edit the first paragraph and you're done! Chances are they are not going to pay for an editor. At worst you don't get paid for 5 minutes of time. Maybe this will put these scammers out of business (Yes, I'm kidding)



[Edited at 2020-11-06 15:42 GMT]


Maria Pia Giuseppina Nuzzolese
Sadek_A
Viktoriia Horiachko
Adieu
Iselin Bekkhus
 
Sadek_A
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Well-said Nov 6, 2020

Speaking of food industry, the begininng of this November a restaurant I'm using started selling, four days later they raised prices of several items on their menu by roughly 20%. In just 4 days of business, they deemed themselves worthy of that raise, which will not be the last I'm sure. On the other hand, any one of us -translators- would be providing the same client with flawless services for 4 years, and that client would still deny the translator any raise. It's all becaue of that "rhetoric... See more
Speaking of food industry, the begininng of this November a restaurant I'm using started selling, four days later they raised prices of several items on their menu by roughly 20%. In just 4 days of business, they deemed themselves worthy of that raise, which will not be the last I'm sure. On the other hand, any one of us -translators- would be providing the same client with flawless services for 4 years, and that client would still deny the translator any raise. It's all becaue of that "rhetoric" on how we must accept the bad conditions we're offered! Well, we don't, let them exclusively use MT for a year or two and see how far it will take them on the road of success! This is a serious DARE, BTW!

Maria Pia Giuseppina Nuzzolese wrote:
The equation time savings = money savings is valid for non-specialized jobs and for all those jobs in which you pay one person’s time

We deserve to work less time for more money. We're required, on a daily basis, to explore and understand topics that sometimes even high-profile people with high-profile salaries didn't know they existed.
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Anouer Daabouch
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Uber drivers thought so, too. Jan 7, 2021

Maxi Schwarz wrote:

If you freelance, you have no employer and no boss. You decide what work to accept, what you will charge, and how you will do the work. If a customer doesn't like what you propose, then they don't become a customer. If you run your own business, you are not a "slave". That is an impossibility.


...AT FIRST.

Gig work is the new darling of abusive business practices in capitalism.


 


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Post-editing: the inevitable way to turn the freelance translator into a slave







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