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Appropriate action to take in response to non-payment of invoice
Thread poster: Mark Harris
Mark Harris
Mark Harris
France
Local time: 15:20
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Good advice Mar 10, 2021

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

Don't take this as Granny teaching you how to suck eggs, but are you sure of the terms you agreed upon?
Agencies often have very lengthy agreements and small details can make all the difference and that are easy to overlook: having to submit your invoice before a particular date is a common one. If you miss the deadline, you "lose" 30 days and are on the next list. Some agencies politely (?!) ignore what was agreed and will gladly stick to their own terms. Then there is the simple fact that many agencies are among those that are struggling more than usual due to their clients paying late under the effects of the pandemic.

I think you simply need to go through the paces. If you decide to use a small claims procedure, you need to demonstrate the steps you have taken. These will include:

1) First reminder
- copy of invoice
- reminder of terms and conditions (deadlines and consequences (interest, penalties)
- request for payment within X days and reference to consequences if fail to pay
- you may decide to suggest payment in instalments but upon the condition that X% be paid immediately
- if you do go for instalments, be clear and strict again about the consequences of default

2) Second reminder
- reference to first reminder and consequences
- state that no response received and/or no offer of payment
- they now have 24/48/72 hours to make full payment, failing which you will take legal action

3) Legal action
- go ahead and act upon what you stated

4) Bonus
Obviously, your agreement includes clear provisions relating to the consequence of late payment (?*!). Note that if the agency is in France, there is an entitlement with professional clients to claim the sum (forfait) of 40€ for recovery costs, conditional upon your having indicated that you would do so in theevent of late payment.

I think that without being robotic about it, it is important to have a late payment procedure in place and to be systematic about applying it. You don't have to be threatening. Indeed it is just part of ordinary commercial practice. You are not just in the business of being a translator - you are in business.



That's good advice to have a late payment procedure in place for if this happens again, thank you. It's the first time I've had to deal with this, so I wasn't too sure how to handle it. Having said that, I think I've essentially followed all the steps you've recommended. I sent the invoice on time, as per their terms, sent them a reminder when they were 1 week late, another at 2 weeks and another at a month. If they bother to reply at all, all I get is nonsense excuses and false promises, so I don't think they've left me with any other choice but threatening legal action. Hopefully that will just prompt them to pay my invoice to avoid the hassle of dealing with a claim.


Edward Potter
 
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:20
French to English
@Mark Mar 10, 2021

Mark Harris wrote:

Dan Lucas wrote:

Chris S wrote:
and then stop working for them.

If they're "late but reliable" he may wish to stay on good terms with them, unless not being paid is having a serious effect on his finances. Problem being of course that he may not find out that they're unreliable until it's too late.

Dan


I thought like that initially as they did always pay eventually after I sent them a few reminders, but this is the largest invoice so far and they have never been anywhere close to this late before (now almost a month and a half late). They have already promised to pay it by a certain date, which didn't happen, and then ignored my follow-up email. I also happen to know another translator who worked with them and had to threaten legal action to get paid. Therefore, I think it's the end of the line for our business relationship (once I get paid of course)!


In some jurisdictions, sending an email will not be enough to rely upon in order for you to pursue a claim. You need to have some means of demonstrating that your request(s) for payment and reminders etc. have actually been received. More often than not, that will require a proof of receipt. Better safe than sorry as an application that is returned for insufficient documentary evidence will only result in further lost time.

The long shot is that if the agency is about to go belly-up, if you are to stand a chance of recovering anything after state funds and so on have taken their cut, you will need to have documented your claim as best you can. I did once manage to get a few hundred euros back from a client that went into liquidation. However, on another non-payment situation, I lost a lot of money. I had done the work, made my claim etc. but the paper trail was not as solid and when it came to paying out, I was left standing on one leg and had one really tough fight getting anything at all. The liquidator was ignoring those who had not been extremely rigourous in claiming their due.


 
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:20
French to English
Fine-tuning it Mar 10, 2021

Mark Harris wrote:
I sent the invoice on time, as per their terms, sent them a reminder when they were 1 week late, another at 2 weeks and another at a month. If they bother to reply at all, all I get is nonsense excuses and false promises, so I don't think they've left me with any other choice but threatening legal action. Hopefully, that will just prompt them to pay my invoice to avoid the hassle of dealing with a claim.


"They have left me with no choice but threatening legal action".

I do so on the recorded/registered delivery letter that I send, sending a copy by mail (with acknowledgement of receipt for both).
By the time I have received no reaction from that type of letter, I then shift into taking legal action.
Indeed, I don't "threaten" that I will take legal action; I inform them that I will. And then I do.
Takes the heat and emotion out of it. It means I'm more detached and effective. Looking back, my early experiences of this cost me time, money and wasted energy. The result was less effective too.

Now, I stick to my protocol, pre-empt refusal and set the ball rolling.

"Hopefully, that will just prompt them to pay my invoice to avoid the hassle of dealing with a claim".
If you do manage to get up their nose more than a strong pot of mustard, then they might just cough up to get you off their back.
That might be the case if:
- assuming they can actually pay you and they are emotional types, feel awkward about it, then they might put you before the taxman and the bank overdraft.
It will not be the case if:
- in spite of any good intentions, they might actually be experiencing genuine cashflow problems and simply not be able to pay you at all.

If they have the taxman, the bank manager and other official organisations breathing down their neck, then believe me, you will not be a priority.

You might like to point out that if they have actually "sold" your work onto their end client without having paid you, they have (probably) sold something they had no title to which (may) put them in an awkward position in terms of intellectual property. If this is the case, if the work is in the public domain, you might consider drawing this to their attention. OKay, this is a little bit of a threat but I've used it a couple of times with success.


 
Mark Harris
Mark Harris
France
Local time: 15:20
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I believe I have a decent paper trail Mar 10, 2021

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

In some jurisdictions, sending an email will not be enough to rely upon in order for you to pursue a claim. You need to have some means of demonstrating that your request(s) for payment and reminders etc. have actually been received. More often than not, that will require a proof of receipt. Better safe than sorry as an application that is returned for insufficient documentary evidence will only result in further lost time.

The long shot is that if the agency is about to go belly-up, if you are to stand a chance of recovering anything after state funds and so on have taken their cut, you will need to have documented your claim as best you can. I did once manage to get a few hundred euros back from a client that went into liquidation. However, on another non-payment situation, I lost a lot of money. I had done the work, made my claim etc. but the paper trail was not as solid and when it came to paying out, I was left standing on one leg and had one really tough fight getting anything at all. The liquidator was ignoring those who had not been extremely rigourous in claiming their due.



To be fair they have actually replied to the majority of my reminders, acknowledging them and giving me a different excuse. First it was cash flow issues and then it was that they had been too busy to process payments, promising that they would pay it that week. It was just my final reminder from this week that they haven't replied to. So I'm assuming that should amount to a fairly decent paper trail?


Edward Potter
 
Mark Harris
Mark Harris
France
Local time: 15:20
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
That's my main concern Mar 10, 2021

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

"They have left me with no choice but threatening legal action".

I do so on the recorded/registered delivery letter that I send, sending a copy by mail (with acknowledgement of receipt for both).
By the time I have received no reaction from that type of letter, I then shift into taking legal action.
Indeed, I don't "threaten" that I will take legal action; I inform them that I will. And then I do.
Takes the heat and emotion out of it. It means I'm more detached and effective. Looking back, my early experiences of this cost me time, money and wasted energy. The result was less effective too.

Now, I stick to my protocol, pre-empt refusal and set the ball rolling.

"Hopefully, that will just prompt them to pay my invoice to avoid the hassle of dealing with a claim".
If you do manage to get up their nose more than a strong pot of mustard, then they might just cough up to get you off their back.
That might be the case if:
- assuming they can actually pay you and they are emotional types, feel awkward about it, then they might put you before the taxman and the bank overdraft.
It will not be the case if:
- in spite of any good intentions, they might actually be experiencing genuine cashflow problems and simply not be able to pay you at all.

If they have the taxman, the bank manager and other official organisations breathing down their neck, then believe me, you will not be a priority.

You might like to point out that if they have actually "sold" your work onto their end client without having paid you, they have (probably) sold something they had no title to which (may) put them in an awkward position in terms of intellectual property. If this is the case, if the work is in the public domain, you might consider drawing this to their attention. OKay, this is a little bit of a threat but I've used it a couple of times with success.



My main concern is that they are having severe cash flow issues and so don't have the funds to pay me even if they wanted to. I'm slightly optimistic considering the fact that another translator they've worked with told me she was paid immediately as soon as she threatened legal action. I'll be sending them a final email tomorrow to advise them that if the money isn't in my account by the end of next week then I'll be raising a claim, so we'll have to see if that'll do the job!


Edward Potter
 
Edward Potter
Edward Potter  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:20
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Good luck Mar 10, 2021


I'll be sending them a final email tomorrow to advise them that if the money isn't in my account by the end of next week then I'll be raising a claim, so we'll have to see if that'll do the job!


One major question I have for you: did you call them up on the telephone to talk to another human being with a friendly, firm and reasonable voice?

My first reaction to your post was to send the friendly reminders, but you already did that. My second reaction was to give them more of a grace period, but I'm not so sure anymore. Reading through your messages it seems that the customer is unreliable and is a disaster waiting to happen. At this point I would still be shooting for 100% payment.

Is this company on the Blue Board? What rating do they get?


Christopher Schröder
 
FanXY
FanXY
China
English to Chinese
My Opinion Mar 11, 2021

If you want to prevent the hassle of unpaid invoices in the first place, make sure that you research new clients to make sure that they’re legit and don’t have any prior complaints. After that make sure that you have a signed contract, keep detailed records, and ask for a payment upfront.

Also, make the payment process as convenient as possible, set-up recurring invoices, and work on establishing strong client relationships. Most importantly, know when to stop chasing a late pay
... See more
If you want to prevent the hassle of unpaid invoices in the first place, make sure that you research new clients to make sure that they’re legit and don’t have any prior complaints. After that make sure that you have a signed contract, keep detailed records, and ask for a payment upfront.

Also, make the payment process as convenient as possible, set-up recurring invoices, and work on establishing strong client relationships. Most importantly, know when to stop chasing a late payment. It’s not worth the time, energy and money to hunt down a small invoice.
Collapse


 
Mark Harris
Mark Harris
France
Local time: 15:20
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
5 stars (with one review) Mar 11, 2021

Edward Potter wrote:

One major question I have for you: did you call them up on the telephone to talk to another human being with a friendly, firm and reasonable voice?

My first reaction to your post was to send the friendly reminders, but you already did that. My second reaction was to give them more of a grace period, but I'm not so sure anymore. Reading through your messages it seems that the customer is unreliable and is a disaster waiting to happen. At this point I would still be shooting for 100% payment.

Is this company on the Blue Board? What rating do they get?



I have spoken to them once before on the phone but it wasn't an issue related to a payment. All the communication we've had related to payment have been via email. They do have a 5 star rating on the Blue Board but there is only actually one review, and I can't read what they said because I'm not a premium member. They do seem to be a legitimate company and they have paid me several times before, even though it has always been late, but obviously they're having cash flow issues and I'm not at the top of their priority list. Hopefully I'll move up that list once I tell them I'll me making a legal claim. Fingers crossed!


 
Edward Potter
Edward Potter  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:20
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Call them first Mar 11, 2021

Mark Harris wrote:

Edward Potter wrote:

One major question I have for you: did you call them up on the telephone to talk to another human being with a friendly, firm and reasonable voice? At this point I would still be shooting for 100% payment.



I have spoken to them once before on the phone but it wasn't an issue related to a payment. Hopefully I'll move up that list once I tell them I'll me making a legal claim. Fingers crossed!


I would consider making a different threat first, such as putting up a bad review on the Blue Board.

Also, I would highly recommend calling them up on the phone regarding this issue.

This possibly could be a client worth saving if their only fault is late payment. You know them better than I, so good luck with whatever you decide.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Don't Mar 11, 2021

DON't threaten. DON't tell them what you're going to do. Just give them 10 days to pay you with a polite notice that if they don't, other action may follow without further notice.

Then never contact them again, and don't respond if they contact you.

If you'd done this when I first suggested it you'd probably have been paid by now.

[Edited at 2021-03-11 15:07 GMT]


 
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:20
Spanish to English
+ ...
Textbook case Mar 11, 2021

I'm fairly sure the above is a good example of Level 3 - use of angry caps, recriminations etc., but still demonstrating peevishness largely reined in.

[Edited at 2021-03-12 06:43 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-03-12 06:44 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-03-12 06:48 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-03-12 06:50 GMT]

[Edited at 2021-03-12 06:50 GMT]


expressisverbis
Baran Keki
Christopher Schröder
 
Mark Harris
Mark Harris
France
Local time: 15:20
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Ok then... Mar 11, 2021

Mervyn Henderson wrote:

Police were called to a pub in London earlier today when a man, asked for immediate payment as the bartender was pulling yet another pint, said that he was “reneging on the contract”, and would pay him “in 10 days, as in perfectly normal commercial practice.” He then began to whistle in what the barman described as a “nonchalant” manner.

The bartender stopped pulling the pint and asked the man to leave, whereupon the man, who spoke with a strong Northern Ireland accent, called him “just another troll” and a “wrecker”. He had been on the premises for a full four hours, informing patrons passing by that he was “an architect turned translator, and a bloody good one, too.”

“Don’t you threaten me,” said the man, as he was being pushed out the door, “and don’t tell me what you’re going to do, neither. Oh, I’m dreadfully sorry, I mean either. But I did this as an example, don’t you understand? A case scenario, see? I told that Mark bloke, I told him, just send them a polite notice, but did he listen? Did he bugger. If he’d listened to me, he’d have been laughing all the way to the bank by now, squire. It happened to me, you know. Yes, I got shafted by the Eyeties, don’t think I didn’t. I was in Florence, me. I had a lawyer all razzed up and ready to go, and so I told him, I said, “Mark, kid, it’s not worth it. Do like I did. Walk away. Don’t say a word to them. Not one word, son. Not a word. Listen to me, I said. Not a single, solitary word. But at the same time, say that other action may follow without further notice.”

The man, who would only say he was resident “in London”, was released with a formal warning.


Thanks for your input...


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
Member (2008)
Italian to English
£ Mar 15, 2021

Have you been paid yet?

 
Mark Harris
Mark Harris
France
Local time: 15:20
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Nope! Mar 15, 2021

Tom in London wrote:

Have you been paid yet?


Not yet unfortunately. They completely ignored my final email so it looks like I won't have any option but to make a claim. I gave them until the end of this week to pay me so we shall see, but I think they are having cash flow issues, so they possibly can't pay me even if they wanted to. I wouldn't be so concerned if it was a smaller amount, but €1000 is a decent chunk of change!


 
Michael Newton
Michael Newton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:20
Japanese to English
+ ...
Non-payment Mar 16, 2021

Post a bad review on the Blue Board. That may set a fire under them.

Matthias Brombach
expressisverbis
 
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Appropriate action to take in response to non-payment of invoice







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